It's a Thursday in London. We've had a mild winter compared to other capital cities. New York is under deep freeze, Boston is no better according to my friends there, whilst we've had rain and wind, but with the occasional sunshine. It was during that brief time of Sun that I decided to stay in bed, snuggled with plush bear (yeah? and?) with Mum's Hot Chocolate, that I start looking at PT or Gym Instructor courses online. I've been considering taking those courses for a while. I'm surrounded by friends who are Physiotherapists, PTs, Gym Instructors etc. And I hear mixed stories of success. Usually PT/Physio chat turns to "marketing" talk, complete with all the buzzwords you hear on shows like The Apprentice taht veryone hates to use. What's your USP? Self Marketing, Client Base Initiative, Unique/Innovative stratedgy. "Hey 'Shroom, why don't you do it? You're knowledgable enough about fitness and also have a knack for teaching" Says one Physio. I blush at the compliment, as I'm actually quite shy, especially during this topic when surrounded by my peers with bodies of Greek Gods and comic book Superheroes. (some literally as they were also stuntmen in recent movies starring a well known crime-fighter dressed as a flying rodent) "My anatomy knowledge is basic at best" I sheepishly replied "All my knowledge comes from my extensive amount of injuries, hearing about everyone else's injuries and the broad strokes knowledge from training" Which is true, first thing I do when I hear of an injury from someone, I google and start learning more about that muscle, bone and its surrounding bits. My confidence booms when my coach says "You already know a lot, more than most, thats why I wanted you to become my Assistant Coach; Also that's the whole point of going on a course, you go to learn and you keep learning as you go along" Anyway, that talk was about a year ago. Circumstances prevented me from considering taking the course but now, I have some free time and also wanting to have a change. I seem to be in good hands in regards to getting details on finding a course, which ones and general advice. My question is (if you all haven't already clicked off the screen) any MAPpers who are PT/Gym Instructors or training to be one? How did/do you find it? As a MAist, I hear a lot that there isn't enough MA based Physio guys. I'm lucky that I know a Physio who works in a local hospital who is also a Blue Belt BJJ as well as a Physio who works a lot with MMA fighters. Give us your stories. ... .
I don't have a lot of expertise in the medical field that goes along with some of this stuff but I am working on my own plane. My end all goal is aimed at being able to teach athletes, specifically combat sport athletes. I'm trying to find the motivation to study up on the PT books I have, and I'm going to school to become a registered dietician so I can work two different angles that are both important in the area I want to be. As far as PT stuff goes I've heard mixed rumors about what matters as far as certification goes. I've seen some people with some run of the mill PT material through one certifying organization that looked like a quarter of a text book and a coloring book, and they've been able to find work as a PT but they're not going anywhere. I can talk about fitness related stuff and have them completely stumped or have no clue what I'm talking about. When I was looking up PT certifying organizations I looked for the top 5 and decided to go with ACE (American Council on Exercise). I got three freaking text books of information. One on the different exercise methodologies/the business side/client related issues (this one is a whopper), one on physiology, and one with a crap ton of exercises and how to progress through them. One thing I'll say is if you're familiar with all the stuff in the book, it's a pain in the butt to get through it and learn all THEIR terminology for THEIR test when you already know most of the info.. As far as becoming a successful trainer, I think there's a big difference from somebody who learned that in a book vs. somebody who learned it through experience. Training other people is a leadership role and people can (I know I can) tell if you're regurgitating information or are speaking from real knowledge and experience. The professional speak is for the professional world and I don't think it's relevant when you're training somebody unless you're driving an idea in their head, and it's relevant. I feel confident in my ability to coach/teach others because I've always been in that sort of position starting in construction work. Moving into the military I also got slammed with the responsibility of instruction at times, and while I was Boxing I was able to help new people out after a while with a lot of success. While not all the experience of instructing somebody else is relevant to fitness, the skills of being able to connect with people and having the knowledge about something transfers over. Being able to be a good instructor doesn't come from a book, it comes through experience which is probably why you get so much praise. All you need is the professional standard, stamp of approval. It's good to have, makes you look good and opens up doors. Step through it, sounds like something you might be happy with.
From my standpoint, which is currently from the perspective of a patient who receives prescribed physiotherapeutic services, a PT with even rudimentary knowledge of the martial arts would be worth scouring for; driving cross town for when one could easily find half a battalion of them down the road. A Physiotherapist with as much knowledge, experience as you have would be worth their weight in gold. I did not feel that way or really give it any thought until my last appt. Its a bit hard to describe adequately, and honestly it sounds silly but when pts find out your a boxer - not even that - just take boxing lessons, kickboxing whatever ( I'm certain the same would be for a wrestler, sub grappler, etc ) they act very odd - snitty, nose-out-of-joint. This applies to the male PTs where I go, the one or two female pts don't seem to fall under this for some reason. The reaction reminds me a bit of how some guys are when - territorial - that's the term I'm looking for. Very strange...I wasn't expecting it and didn't know quite what to think - it bugged me more than it should - anomalies of human behaviour usually do 'till I think I've sorted out the reasons. Maybe someone near 50 is not supposed to run sprints, then? Or take boxing or any of that. I'm not a fit 49er by any stretch of things, I've a lot of wear n tear and weathering, so I'm truly gobsmacked as to the reaction from some of these young therapists. But I know that I'm not the only old sod who doesn't feel compelled to spend their afternoons mowing the lawn and agonizing over a weed growing in the flower bed - I reckon that's what is considered proper - don't know, lol. There's a fellow older than me in my boxing club - or there was one until he was K'O'd badly last month, bless his soul... Anyroads... I recall detecting the distinct knicker-in-a-twist after I'd asked something regarding isometric stretching - things that'd been shared by Van Zandt and Steve that I'd wanted to enquire about since I was in a PT programme. Oh no, that wouldn't do at all, just wouldn't do at all. Mind you, it was subtle but definitely a couple of them had the unmistakebale "feel threatened but don't want to show it" thing guys do when they've things lookin well in hand on the surface but not feeling too secure somewhere - you know. I just warn't expecting that from licensed, schooled, therapists and I've no doubt at all they they were not aware of what they were telegraphing. I did happen to glance at most of the PT Office's clientele; obese women who could barely...well, I was very fat as a child, but the mindset more than anything...there was another fellow there, perhaps a little older than meself - had suffered a stroke or something I'm sure, they were just getting him to more his arm about. None of the therapists looked as if they had to work too hard or looked as though they faced challenges to their respective skills and knowledge... Since I've not had experience with physiotherapists since I was 12 or so, I canna say if this is typical or not - I opt to think it a fluke; but for certain, if I hear of ANY licensed PT's who've so much as thought about taking an adult karate lesson ( which would signify a willingness to push themselves beyond their usual respective boundaries ) I will drop my current PT office for him or her and pay out of pocket if need be. It buggars me that much. I don't know if this helps with any decisions regarding taking the course or not, 'Shroom, but it wouldn't take too many people having experiences similar to mine to provide a substantial hidden market in need... If there are many PT with combat, MA experience out there, and you'd think there would be...they are all bent on keeping it a sworn secret, apparently.
ive done a few gym teaching courses and coaching courses for certain sports im currently involved in. In the UK you most likely will be qualified by REPS (level 2 for gym instruction, level 3 for PTing). Most people will tell you it's a necessary evil because it's incredibly basic health and safety stuff and some gizmos like kettlebells and selling yourself. You can do a collection of courses through "the training room" and other such organisations but it cost 2000-3000 quid (they have a loan scheme but you have to work in a gym the assign you to). Regarding MA stuff and PTing - wrestling and bjj solo drills and warm ups are the bomb, use them in the bootcamp classes. PTing is often about getting your client to move more and feel worked/tired. A good PT finds work arounds for things a client can't do very well (you have to sell the idea that it's not them thats bad or your choice of exercise, which many PTs struggle to take a hard line with because they dont want to lose a client) and uses progressions appropriately. also telling them vegetables are good but realising you arent legally allowed to give dietician advice but can give nutrition advice if you've done a course (lol legal loopholes). A rich PT will string out programs and manipulate the numbers to boost a clients ego and keep more clients. often though, they will allow the client to do things they arent ready for (e.g. the PT who let the guy who recently got a new hip do cleans in a group class) but that doesnt keep clients in the long run when they get injured and doesnt look out for the clients health Slip would be a great person to ask. not only was he a really awesome PT he was making money (He lived in central HK on his PT work, was making craploads im sure). personally, i don't wanting to go into PTing. It's decent money if you can sell yourself but the main selling point is how you look and i dont look very impressive.
on the MA based physios. from what ive been told by S&C coaches i've worked with as well as athletes and club coaches is that most physios dont have decent lifting or sport experience in which to apply their knowledge my lifting coach complains that a physio told him to take a few weeks off before a competition which wasnt really possible. a physio with lifting experience told him to lighten the load and give him corrective exercises for a few weeks. he PRd for the first time in years
Interesting what people come up against! I can well appreciate what you are going through and the difficulties experienced. Peopel should not be so stupid/defensive when they deal with any type of patient! Oddly enough when I have travelled and visited MA people in other countries the heads of the 2 orgs I went to see were physiotherapists. There are a few about that train in MA but I bet that to a degree people don't always want people they train with knowing their background. Case in point: I messed my knee up getting cleared out of a ruck about 3 weeks ago. Two weeks later I'm standing on the side of the pitch on crutches and a guy gets injured (read likely concussed). Only the 1st team has a physio and they are at another ground so of course someone sees me and grabs me to come on the pitch (in the mud, on crutches) to sort the guy out :' S. Sometimes I would prefer to be anonymous! :' P One problem with physiotherapy is , like medicine, that you are initially expected to be all things to all people. That means dealing with patients with arthritis, bladder control problems , strokes, heart disease, etc equally well. There tends to be a level of specialization that isn't always recognised by the public and so people's expectations may be inappropriate for the physio they have in front of them. You might want to check out whether there is a specialist group (here in the UK there is the Association of Charted Physiotherapist in Sports Medicine) that can point you in the correct direction although even this isn't always useful. In the US (forgive me brothers and sisters for plugging another profession ;' ) you can possibly benefit from visiting an Athletic Trainer which is a related profession that focuses primarily on treating athletes (http://www.nata.org/). One more thing related to how MAPPers vs how non-MAPPers view things. We give and take advice on here from each other with the acceptance that this is a casual internet forum and no one has to be really responsible for what they say. Some of what is said on here would be controversial in various circles. Now I don't feel a need to judge people and we will all see how well things said match our experiences. Sometimes it's easy to forget how a MAPPer will say something and then, perhaps a year or two, completely reverese their opinion. On-line it's not a big deal but if you were treating a patient you might be held acountable for your position. Saying I think this is correct because of the opinion of some on-line buddies would not go down well in front of a discipinary hearing :' D So just a bit of perspective from someone who can see both sides of the road :' ) LFD
umm Just thought of something that might be helpful for American MAPPers. Consider calling the local wrestling/gridiron/bball coach and ask who they use / recommend. They will likely be a good source of either a Sports Physical Therapist or certified Athletic Trainer. We don't have a similar national standard for sports therapy here in the UK and you can't always be certain of the skills of a trainer. Certainly there are good ones about but you need to keep your eyes open. Just sayin' LFD
Where I'm from in Florida the University of Florida has a program for athletic trainers where they send them to work at the high schools during there final time in graduate school. Along with that, if a child plays sports for a high school in the area they are also insured for physical therapy and a few other things with the university as well in case they get injured (pretty big deal as UF is a huge medical school). There was a man and woman that did it for about 2 years that were awesome and I learned a lot from them. They would also work out at the high school and let you come in and see what they were learning about as well. They also put the football coaches in line when they were punishing us physically in the Florida heat and made the coaches give us water breaks by the clock, regardless of how angry the coaches were. I can't speak highly enough about them. Then we got a new athletic trainer and he did some pretty stupid things. I tore my MCL and before I was sent to the University for physical therapy/x-rays the guy had me running sprints to see if anything was wrong with me. From what I heard he almost got kicked out of the program for it and had hell to pay at the university. I think that mirrors your statement of "quality differs among individuals" pretty well. A lot of universities do that sort of program and any high school coach for athletics probably has good points of contacts if you know them. Excellent advice!
Can I ask exactly what courses you are looking at and what would be the end goal. There as been talk of both personal trainers and physiotherapists (which I've both seen abbreviated as PT so I'm getting a bit confused). And then somewhere mentioned trainers. Sports trainers, personal trainers and physios are very different and do very different jobs, at least where I am from and require very different amounts of training.
Its understood that "the advise here is in no way to be construed as or meant as a substitute for a medical..." blah, blah...forgot how it goes exactly, lol.
I...think, that the gist of 'Shroom's post was in reference to a Personal Trainer course, as a matter of point. However, since he does interact with and know physiotherapists (AKA physical therapist in the States) and it is not that unusual in the course of things for a personal trainer to go the next level and begin seeking a degree in physiotherapy, I was reminded of my experiences with physiotherapists and an opportunity to vent.
Hey Righty, I'm at the moment of 2 minds on which course to take. I'm leaning to more Personal Trainer as it's also more of an option of able to do it as a Part Time job...(which I would then need to do the math on the tax and how much I would have to do to make it worthwhile). ...And then basically go from there! I also been advised that PT qualifications are not completely recognised in certain gyms so would also need further research in regards to that. I'll be poking my friends about clarifications etc, I was just asking if any MAPpers have any experience in the matter. That way any other budding Instructors can look up this thread and see what's the various experiences are.
Cool. The relevant qualification to become a personal trainer will differ between areas, so I can’t help you out there. I was tossing up becoming one as well due to the hope of a bit of extra cash and general interest but decided not to for a few reasons after looking into it and talking to a few people. Summerised as …. - It’s very hard to get off the ground and get a good client base to become successful. Most PTs are either based in a gym or do boot camp style workouts. There are more potential clients in the gyms but you generally have to pay the gym to work out of their facility. Boot camps style stuff is harder to build up a client base, much like starting an MA school. I know of two who recently left PTing to do security work as work is more reliable. - The PT courses are very shallow and produce many PTs who are simply crap and do nothing further to educate themselves. Sure there are some great ones out there but remember who you are competing against. This may seem like a good thing but many clients don’t look too closely at their PT and competency so you have to find a way to promote that other than a qualification on a piece of paper which doesn’t mean much. So yeah, it pretty much comes down to getting clients and that’s why a lot use shameless self-promotion. Good physios are great and in demand from active people who want to remain active for the rest of their lives despite numerous injuries along the way. It is of course a long journey to become one, especially compared to a basic PT course.
Righty, thats what I heard too. Lots of competition and a lot who actually aren't that good (hence the talk of marketing etc). I heard of one story where a guy was charging very little for his sessions, in hopes to build some form of client base, but didn't get any joy. So he upped his price to what was considered "the norm" or "the average". Suddenly he got quite a few requests, his theory is that people were people probably looking at his prices and thinking "You only get what you pay for" and thought it was too cheap to be any good. Yes, I hear its very hard to get off the ground. But I think that's the same with any businesses starting up. I've been a Manager of a newly opened restaurant in the past and we were lucky. The saying "The 1st year is crucial" cannot be more true, we did a lot of local promoting, got my guys to do a Lion Dance ceremony (nice and loud for the locals) just to get some attention. Even then the 1st 6 months was very ropey and the last 6 months we were very on and off...personally I think we were lucky to last as long as we did till I had to move on with my life. Obviously this will be very different but at least I know I got some experience, worst comes to worst I get off to a very slow start or maybe even not at all, but thats the risk with all self starting businesses. Maybe I'll have to go all "White Goodman" on all y'all http://www.imdb.com/media/rm4099312640/ch0007894
Hi Mushroom As you know most industries = lots of competition. Apart from maybe Sewerage Material Operator (is a crap job) The thing is that clearly you possess a passion for the subject (Personal Training). So as long as you can transfer that passion to your potential clients...And ask for the sale...Then you'll succeed. Marketing is business. And a business necessity. The problem a lot of freelancers run in to is: A) They don't follow up with their existing clients enough and B) They fail to get a constant stream of new clients I know a slew of Personal Trainers. The most successful are those who hustle. This is pretty easy because most are really into fitness training etc. And so getting out there and talking about this stuff comes natural to them. Hence they enough to get enquiries and manage to covert a few. I could write another book here just about this example. In short pitch/ position yourself where you want to be in the market. Then prove you belong there. You firstly do this by deciding who your ideal client is. And then making them aware of who you are and what you can do for them. So IF you want to help say wrestlers get stronger and more powerful for wrestling then you'll need to make sure they know of you. And know why they can benefit from your training. And then get them to pay you for it. Same as any business really. Contrarily if your clients are high income working professionals who want someone to gee them along in the gym...Then you'll need to suss out how you can get your marketing collateral in front of those folks. And get them to pay you for it. This is mostly about: A) Knowing the Key Core Secrets to your industry - All industries possess Key Core Secrets to do with 1) Marketing and 2) Operations B) Knowing the Who? What? Where? Why? When? and How? of it all Who your Ideal Clients are. Where to find them etc. C) Getting started by getting enough to show you possess a Track Record, Credibility - Testimonials and Social Proof help a lot here. Here's the thing. Start your Personal Training as a sideline to your existing job. You'll find a way. Wait till you're at the tipping point = When your earnings from PT'ing are 1.5 times your job wages. And then you can start doing it full-on, full-time etc Good Luck
Make people feel special - if you can figure out a way that suits every type of person, that is!? I used to be shy - I liked martial arts teachers who could tell me something distinctive about myself, even if it was a critisism e.g. "you fight like flopsy the bunny!" I am interested in people, so I love teachers who can tell me a great story about themself, or someone else. I believe lots of people like storytelling.
