Most of us at some point in the past have had very bad workout programmes, dominated by isolated exercises and the use of machines. Wasting precious training time, when a good routine would have given good gains. Annoying to think back, how I was encouraged by gym instructors to use such a bad programme! :woo: My 15 year old nephew plays water polo for the junior national team. The team wrote a letter to his gym taking responsibility for any injury he might get at the gym, they also gave a summary of what they want him to do. The programme the gym came up with (obviously by some genius) is yet more cardio workout, which he really needs and believe it or not, isolation exercises and entirely the use of machines, as they said someone of his ages SHOULDN’T use the free weights!!!! What I need is a link to a good article, from a reputable source explaining how useless this will be for any kind of functional explosive strength. Maybe a sticky thread on here, would be easier than going through the same old argument every week Thanks
"Strength Training for Young Athletes" by Kraemer and Fleck is one of the best books on the subject, and well worth picking up for almost anyone, with children or without. You can see a section of the book here. I'm sure they mention a preference for free weights over machines, I just can't find the section right now. Also, I'd look at the American Academy of Pediatrics policy statement on strength training. They do state that: "A general strengthening program should address all major muscle groups and exercise through the complete range of motion. The most efficient way to work all major muscle groups is with free weight, compound movements. And the majority of machines are designed in a way which does not allow a full R.O.M., especially for children, who do not fit the "average-size" most machines are intended for. But, if you have a list of things that you want the kid to do, why is he not doing it? I presume they won't allow him to workout without a trainer, but...you're paying them. If somebody hired me and said they wanted to do 475 jumping jacks before and after each workout, I'd advise against it, but...they're the customer. You should be able to get what you're paying for.
I hope they're going to have a trainer show him the moves? Maybe they offered the machines because he's a beginner and unfamiliar with lifting...
Even still, that's a pretty garbagey way to start lifting for a sport IMO. Cause then you need to re-learn all the grooves and feel and work your way back up the totem pole resistance wise when you do "graduate" to free weights, but yeah, good observation. For the record, I've used weights since freshman year, and am a junior now (16 years old). I stand a healthy 5'8" and have NO joint problems aside from my knees, which is not weight related (TKD stuff..oopsy?). So HA! :Angel:
Thanks Bewater, some good links. Will be most useful. I didn't see the list, that went straight to the gym. So between the English national team and the gym they've managed to come up with a routine that we all seem to find equally useless..... I'd like to have seen what the team wrote, although from what my sister said it sounded aerobic and the weight(machine) training all high rep and low weight. :bang: The gym told him not to use the free weights :bang: And my sisters taking the view she doesn't want him muscle bound and slow with heavy weights :bang: Although shes only following advice which you'd assume to be right if you didn't know better. Even my nephew knows what they told him to do is lame, he'd like to train with me more often if only he lived closer.
Now I am as anti machines as you can get but I have to say that there are exceptions IMHO. Beginners are one of them.. For the first six weeks or so of a newbs training, machines are not going to harm them. It is a way of keeping things simple for them. Think of all the things that experienced lifters take for granted; You know correct form for every exercise, day in, day out. You look at a plate and you know what it weighs without having to read the number anymore. You know which plates to use for which exercise You know your way around the gym like the back of your hand You know your equipments settings and limitations You know little tricks that make loading the bar easier This is all I could real off the top of my head, but there are so many more that you don't even know that you know. By giving tham a programme that makes them use the machines you are simplifying it for them while building a foundation of strength for free weights. The new trainee is a lot more likely to stick it out if he understands exactly what he has got to do and its easy for him (i.e adjust the seat, sit down, put pin in there, push). Once he moves on to freeweights it will take him a little while to get into the groove just like any new exercise will but, from my experience it does not take that long- literally 1 or 2 sessions at the most. But the bonus is that he can apply what he has used on the machines to some degree, and despite what some say, there IS a carryover. Now this is what is important when using machines. Only use machines that ulilise a compound movement. The best are; Leg press Lat pulldown Seated/ flat bench press Back Rows (various types) Shoulder press Paradoxically, if you see a smith machine- stay well away. Most modern machines at least try to mimic the natural pattern of the origional movements, where as the SM doesnt even come close IMO. Avoid; Leg extensions Bicep curl machines Lat raise machines Cable crossovers PEC DECKS!!! Etc. All that is written above applies only to good quality machines by good manufacturers such as Bodymasters, Hammer Strength, Life fitness, Technogym, Nautilus etc. If the machines are old and poorly maintained then leave them well alone. Just my 2cents.
I would think a 15 year old could use free weights, unless if he or she is watched, or supervised by an older adult who knows what the best recommended weight that should be lifted, and maybe to get someone else to help to show the proper technique to not get an injury. But if you don't want him to try the free weights that's alright. What I would recommend for him, is to get shown the proper technique.
I knew all of that within a week of training. People now days lack discipline. The first exercise I ever done at the gym was the free weight full squat. machines looked too sissy for me .
I should have highlighted the above statement because this is the most important and the rest are just minor little points. Are you telling me that you knew (and could apply) perfect technique in the 'big 5' after just one week??? I doubt it.
On the exercises I did at least (Squats, pullups, dips, etc). Started benching a week after and started deadlifting 2 weeks after (so I am wrong on this part). It is not that complicated. Squatting is probably the most technical of all these and even that is pretty simple. There is a reason why they are the BIG 5. Its simple enough and extremely effective. Of course, I did look around various sites including this and t-nation (thanks MAP!) a few days before I started. Oh and "perfect" is not a good word to use. Think about it.
I bet that if I had seen your technique at the time that it was awful and that I could pick it apart (just my opinion though and impossible to prove ). I have trained 100s of people in my career and have yet to not teach even experienced regular gym rats a thing or two in technique for these movements. The squat, deadlift, and bench are extreemly complicated movements and even just the smallest of flaws in technique can hold you back, or even worse- injure you (either in the short term or long term). As much as I like MAP and T Nation I do not think that these will give you all the information you need to learn the intricate details of these movements. The help of a well qualified trainer to watch you is essential. Experience is essential. Good references (forums are not enough). are essential. When it comes to technique I agree the word perfect is wrong, but it is the goal.
Im not saying its a piece of cake or anything, just simple enough. Saying that its extremely complicated is an exaggeration. I mean, not all of us are competitive powerlifters (sit back, sit BACK!, DAMN YOU SIT BACK!! ). Two things that bugs me in terms of exercise is oversimplification and overcomplication. As they say, "shut up and squat!". Wise words to live by. edit: I also remember someone saying that there is no bad technique when you are world class (power or OL). You can pick out a lot of flaws but you cant argue the weight they put up. A few world class OLers even used a rounded back technique!! I just added this for those aiming for "perfect" technique.
They are complicated if you want to get to good weights AND remain injury free (longterm and short term). And when you have to learn all of the basic moves in one go its tough on inexperienced newbs. I have worked in a gym with all machines and some of them need re teaching on simple machines. I have yet to see a newb that learnt all the moves in 1 week was all I was saying. But I am sure there are many exeptions out there. I see what you mean, but like anything you want to get good at, you have to perfect the small things to make a difference. Think of an ol swimmer or F1 car. They are so finely tuned that the slightest thing out of place can mean the difference between winning and losing. Depends on your goals. Yep, every gym should have that on a plaque above the door.
