http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ards-global-eradication-of-polio-9862804.html And back to the good vaccines do -
My middle child , my son , was diagnosed asd , my youngest still had her mmr , and guess what ? No asd ! What your post says to me is that you would rather expose your children to deadly diseases , than run the risk (in your mind) of exposing them to something that may cause them some problems in the long run , but ultimately may save their life. That you're trying to claim the moral high ground here with such a shallow , and frankly , completely disproven mind set disgusts me.
Looking at Kave's graphic it would appear that the US started vaccinating far earlier than the UK, so it is conceivable that mdgee really doesn't appreciate what it was like without them.
Metastudies with thousands of data points (rather than say 12) were posted at the beginning of this thread showing no link or correlation between vaccine usage and autism. In terms of efficacy, well, do some legwork. It's out there. http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/publications.htm You keep bringing Wakefield up as a hero - do you now think there might be misbehavior here? Like say, lumbar puncturing children when there's no medical necessity? That we'd rather a child be alive and autistic than dead and not autistic? That it has some small modicum of scientific competence and understands the difference between correlation and causation? That, despite all its faults, we can at least rely on the media to disseminate the scientifically supported stance at least just this freaking once? Dude, I am on the spectrum. Being personally involved doesn't mean you have to be an idiot about it.
Computer programming causes AS, just look at all those poor souls who work at Silicon Valley. It's obviously in the languages they use.....
Added to the reference guide http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1074898569&postcount=19
The nub of the issue is how you define something happening as a "result of a vaccine". You are bringing nothing to the table in that regard except youtube nonsense and anti-vaccine hyperbole and propaganda. Using the "you have to have something happen to you" gambit is basically you running out of ideas (and all you have is ideas...nothing substantial). I once stood and debated with some evangelical christians prolestising in the street. When they finally got tired of me picking holes in their biblical literalism they too reverted to the "when something happens in your life, like someone dying, then christianity will make sense". It wasn't covincing then and isn't convincing now. You are the sort of person that would be burning "witches" when the crops failed.
talking about mercury in vaccines - http://www.iflscience.com/health-an...0-ml-elemental-mercury-injected-intravenously ''In a photo from The New England Journal of Medicine, elemental mercury accumulated in a woman’s lungs after she attempted suicide by injecting 10 ml (135 g) intravenously. She arrived at the emergency room with rapid breathing, a dry cough, and bloody mucus. The woman recovered from the ordeal and after a 10 month follow-up, she was deemed healthy with no renal, gastrointestinal, or neurological symptoms. As the image description states, “The absence of clinical toxicity in this patient illustrates the differences in the acute and chronic effects of exposure to elemental mercury, inorganic mercury, and organic mercury. Inorganic and organic mercury are much more toxic than elemental mercury; for example, a dose of 400 mg of mercury in the form of dimethylmercury is usually lethal.”''
to plays devil advocate: to quote many of my room mates (all doctors) "case studies are the lowest form of evidence" (they get sick of writing "pointless" case studies after a day of surgeries) but my response "yeah but it's a treasure trove for data mining and analysis, allowing a statistical consensus" (which is what we have on the general safety of vaccines)
I remember sitting in a filled lecture hall in 1971 and the biology teacher saying something along the lines of "If this was 70 years ago 2/3 of you wouldn't be here." Maybe it was half and not 2/3,but ya get the point. I advocate we ditch the vaccines.Bring back the common spread of diptheria,the pox,whooping cough,TB,polio,measles,etc. Let's have scarlet and yellow fever again,too.And stop draining those swamps-those skeeters are just God's creatures finding their niche in the ecosystem. The result? Well,I think at least in the industrialized societies we're genetically inferior to our ancestors of just two or three generations back due to no weeding out process.Almost everybody survives childhood,thereby passing on their genes which wouldn't have cut the mustard in the Darwinian mode.Can't really dispute this. Really,think how many people used to be allergic to dust,cow's milk,grass (the kind on the lawn),peanuts,wheat (for cryin' out loud,one of the main foods of man since the dawn of full time agriculture),etc,etc,etc,as Yul as The King would say,as opposed to now.This stuff's all quite common-wasn't when I was young.(I suppose there could be a school of thought somewhere which blames vaccines for these,too?) Let's return to and embrace a natural mode of being,and let nature take its course. For the good of the species. Altho' I imagine some here will say "Wait 'til one of your kids dies from tetanus,then you'll change your tune." Wimps.
would certainly get the anti-vax folks clamouring for vaccinations. nobody disliked polio vaccines or antibiotics when they all had relatives badly affected
We do have scarlet fever, it's not vaccinated against and due to the law of unintended consequences because we've trained people not to go to the doctor with a sore throat it's much more common than 30 years ago.
Well pharmacists are supposed to be the dirt point of contact in the UK although certain illnesses may slip through the cracks
I feel compelled to point out that you can dispute this. Genetically superior or inferior is only a judgment made based on those genes' interaction with the environment. The fact that almost everyone survives childhood, while allowing for genes that would be deleterious in another context to proliferate, still means that it is relatively easy to have a higher fitness than our ancestors.
i think it's pretty sad that the anti-vaxxers have no sense of the damage these diseases have done to humanity historically. measles, mumps, rubella, polio, small pox, flu....those are all killers of human beings.
sadly, one only needs a healthy dose of skepticism. which is what i find most interesting in a variety of endeavors: evolution vs. creationism, global warming vs. deniers, many others. people so willingly believe one or two data points and ignore mountains of evidence. my book says humans were created out of dust on day whatever...forget the 150 years of science that says otherwise. andrew wakefield conducts a study on 12 kids, he must be right. forget the other studies that looked at hundred of thousands of children that were vaccinated. this one guy, wakefield, is totally right. it's really a fascinating insight into the human brain that we can give ourselves the tools to ignore reality so readily. works with martial arts even. don't believe your eyes that these mma fighters can kick butt. believe me, 10th dan d34dly str33t art guy. that's just sport, they can't really fight on the str33t, because they won't know what to do when there are no rules. literally, the boxer won't be able to throw punch because on the str33t there's no rules.
found this comic that explains a lot of issues pretty succinctly. https://medium.com/the-nib/vaccines-work-here-are-the-facts-5de3d0f9ffd0
