No, my question an answers must be worded funky... I know it's legal, but don't know why it's not as cool, and why some people think its impossible. The impression I get is that it's a cheap trick, which seems odd.
It's a thread about wrist locks, I brought up the fact that they work on blackbelts to address the response of 'they don't work' which is not my question.
why not cool...only thing I can guess is a throwback to the "ineffective TMA"? I know my BJJ teacher here uses them, and they hurt like a ....well you know the rest!
We dont use them against any white belt at my gym, its too easy to pop things with them from a dominant postition, and from an inferior postition they too low percentage to get into the habit of using. Sayinh that one if them is my goto waza get out of the top sidecontrol but stuck in a headlock position. only works with a solid sc with near arm and head control.
I find knowing how to do wristlocks the best defense against being put in a wristlock. Also they are nice when you are working takeaway drills with the training knife.
I've gotten take-ori several times when going for kimuras in top side control, only on blue and white belts. Also easy to get take-ori when breaking their grip for an armbar by pulling their elbow into your stomach and compressing the hand downward, but by that point you might as well just armbar them. In my experience twisting wrist locks are difficult (impossible, for me so far) to submit someone with unless you have complete positional dominance and at that point it's smarter/easier to just attack a larger joint. I did like this "hon-gyaku"-esque application but haven't gotten it to work. I've caused pain with it but they always manage to free their hand regardless of how tight I clamp down on it. Either way it frees up your arms. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMtl35jIFmM&feature=digest_sat"]The Over Down Wrist Lock from Bicep Control - YouTube[/ame]
That's cool, perhaps if the guard could be adjusted to close the gap between their elbow and your knee the might not have the space to pull their arm out, in the vid, I reckon a strong person might well muscle out of that.
I think generally I enjoy the sneaky locks, more than the tradionial ones, plus they are higher percentage (first couple of times) than the more well known ones as people don't drill escapes... Another I have had a lot of success with has been a straight arm lock from when you are back mounted with the guy over/under going for bow and arrow type chokes etc. Grab the right wrist with your left, wrapping right arm around their tricep, most often get a sub, or they give up the position allowing you to twist into guard.
Yep them attacking your back, their bottom arm I guess...(My way of explaining seems fruity again) Imagine their left around your neck, over your left shoulder, and right under your right shoulder, feeding the gi for the choke or working towards an armbar. Attacking that right arm.
Ahhh, the top arm is the usual one to attack to get the escape to in guard, gi wise a bow and arrow only needs the top grip so the bottom one shouldnt be fed in that deep, so if they do, treat it like a gift. Focus wholy on it though and itll fool you escape game which, with someone on your back should be your A game for both sport and SD.
We focus on 'biting' grip where the other hand often opens the lapel and the finishing hand inches upwards to a deep choke. This creates a much more powerful finish but creates opportunities for the second hand to be attacked. Plus as you rightly say the focus 'should' be to shrug under that top arm so people don't expect any attacks on the other. It's working well for now, but I'm also very confident to be in that position and getting out of the choke with only 1 or no hands.
Wrist locks can work. Claudio Calasans catches people with them all the time. Kote gaeshi from standing is pretty legit, but I always worry that they won't go with it and something will break. The combination wristlock / waki gatame move is pretty good - nikyo in Aikido, I think? The cow hand wristlock is good from guard if they get sloppy with hand positioning. Also works in gripfighting, as does kote gaeshi. The double wrist lock / top wrist lock moves are legit as well if you can get the wrist twist (modified version of the kimura/americana from catch wrestling). I always go for them if I can over the standard kimura/americana. They hit the elbow and shoulder harder than some other wrist locks, though. They're real moves and they work, but they only really work if you're already competent at grappling fundamentals. I would hesitate to teach them to someone who wasn't already at least a brown belt in judo, for instance. I think Roy Dean has a good instructional video out on integrating them into BJJ. As an Aikido/Judo/BJJ black belt, he probably knows what he's talking about. Still... don't see the point in learning them until you can already reliably hit attacks on larger joints like the elbow.
I use them all the time but almost never finish with them. They're primarily a positional thing for me. I just use them to break up grips that I don't want my opponent to have. If he wants to be pushy and hold onto the grip instead of retreat from it, it turns into a joint-based takedown, but committing to finishing it generally just backfires. Once the opponent is on the ground or unbalanced I just move to knee on belly. Occasionally ura or hon gyaku versus an upside-down wrist grip (opponent's thumb facing my hand) will yield a tap but again probably 95% of the time anyone competent will just abandon the grip, so that's my main intent in using them. In fact I feel the same way about using knee kimuras. Rarely do I get a sub out of them but they're great for a specialty SC escape and to get people to give up the kneebar when they're based up on their knees.
locks Dear Matt, Your say your traing partner has had 12 years experience with a student of Chiba Sensei. You say his ex teacher is now a Shihan.Well, I would hhave thought someone with this background would be conversant with Nikkyo , Sankyo etc and be able to apply these waza.Regarding Nikkyo , applied by Chiba Sensei and other Shihan, you bite the dust pretty fast when the application is applied .If not your wrist gets injured .Cheers, Joe.
To bend one finger or split 2 fingers may be easier than the wrist lock. When you apply "vertical" pressure wrist lock on your opponent when his arm is parallel to the ground, your opponent can raise his elbow up to release pressure. When he does that, his forearm will be vertical, you can apply "horizontally" pressure wrist lock on him. If he rotates his body, he can still release the pressure. You can then apply "pulling" pressure on him. You will need to change your wrist lock in 3 different directions in order to be able to deal with your opponent's respond.
Yeah he is a beast, but Nikkyo (which is faster to apply ime) is easily countered by making a fist and pulling your arm in. We only catch each other fully when we lose focus and get too wrapped up in grip fighting etc.
nikkyo Matt, How can you make a fist to counter nikkyo when you are holding the guys wrist, or jacket etc?Apart from that a good nikkyo applied correctly drops a man pretty fast.I suggest you meet Chiba Sensei and feel this for yourself. Who is your mates Aikido ex teacher?Joe.
