Discussion in 'Wrestling' started by Pretty In Pink, Jul 9, 2012.

  1. m1k3jobs

    m1k3jobs Dudeist Priest

    My wrestling coach in high school was very much into the repetition game. We'd go through hours of nothing but shoots or escapes or whatever was on his agenda. When i tried BJJ 35 years later my shot was back after only a couple of practices.

    Problem was being in my 50's it was a lot scarier to do then than in high school. Even though I don't train any more I still work it on the heavy bag, I just don't finish the drive.
  2. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    This has actually caused me to have some interesting thoughts. We always think of the double leg as being a high percentage move, yet in folkstyle matches way more points are scored from sprawls than doubles, so surely this suggests the opposite?
  3. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    i think in both sports its hard to hit but for different reasons :

    in freestyle and grappling in general (when compared to MMA) the stance is lower, the hands are held lower, the movement of the opponent on the outside are much slower and more deliberate and all this makes the double harder to hit., kenny johnson for example teaches a wide low stance for grappling, one hand low defending the legs one hand up range finding, and you move very deliberately: one inch one inch, all this makes the shoot from the outside very hard, hence you tend to hit it from the clinch like mushroom talked about

    In MMA the stance is higher, hands are held higher, you tend to move at a much quicker pace, all this makes the double much easier to hit, especially a high double or blast double, of course if you miss it you get sprawled on and eat punches from the top lol or end up on your back getting pounded

    i still think in both arenas the double is a high percentage move if done right, but they need setting up very well, and endless repetitions its not an easy skill to pull off...gone are the days of shooting from the outside from a mile away in MMA lol
  4. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Thanks for all the info so far guys! This is really something I need to work on, because it is pretty essential for MMA, and is especially useful for submission wrestling.
  5. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    good luck, but what are you 6 foot 3? if so your time might be better spent on other takedowns....not saying dont work on it but simply accept somethings will suit you better than others
  6. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    I'm talking about wrestling in general, are you suggesting Judo?
  7. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    nope wrestling, mainly submission wrestling, one of my training partners is 6 foot 3, im 5,11 no way he shoots on me unless its really well set up, knee taps, ankle picks, singles...now thats another matter, his long limbs make knee taps and ankle picks hard to deal with
  8. m1k3jobs

    m1k3jobs Dudeist Priest

    Since MMA uses a more upright position than sub-grappling/wrestling you might want to try leg dives for singles rather than a shoot. From a clinch position while fighting for control if you find you have some freedom to move you do what is basically a dive, like you are diving into a swimming pool and use both arms to trap a leg, lower your hips for leverage and from there it is your normal single leg pick up.

    Being a big guy when I rolled with other big guys we tended to use more upright clinch work than those guys who are much close to the mat to begin with. The move is fairly high percentage and since your hips are still up a sprawl defense doesn't shut you down completely. I've been on both sides of it and it can be hard to stop.
  9. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Sweet advice, thanks everyone! I also bought Randy Coutures "Wrestling for Fighting" and I'm finding it useful.
  10. m1k3jobs

    m1k3jobs Dudeist Priest

    After rereading my post, one thing I wanted to make clear is the dive is a bend from the waist so the move is kind of backwards from a shot. You bend from the waist while diving into the leg, your shoulder actually bangs into his thigh, trap the leg, then lower the hips and lift. It's an old school wrestling move.

    Use big hooks not little ones. That means grab with the arm not the hands.
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2012
  11. GrappleorWrestle

    GrappleorWrestle Valued Member

    Chadderz, you have received some great advice so far, but I would like to ask a few questions if that's alright.

    I notice in your first post your question is in regards to takedowns in general, but have you noticed you are able to secure/score a takedown easier at one distance over another?

    For instance have you found it easier to shoot from afar? Take a shot while in the clinch? Or possible have them pressed against the cage and then go for a takedown/throw? Do you ever set up your takedowns before you shoot or is it all impulse?

    Also have you tried asking your sparring partners if they notice that you have a tell when you shoot?

    Yes, I saw that you have trouble getting lower for the shot due to your height, but if you do not setup a takedown correctly or if you have a tell it will be even more of a challenge.
  12. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Eh, basically when I wrestle with somebody, I look like a total virgin. I'm out of breath, fumbling around, and I'm normally on my back after thirty seconds or less.
  13. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Well-Known Member Supporter

    It would benefit you greatly to learn how to sprawl and be good at it in the same way it benefits you to learn positioning in BJJ so you know when and what you're in danger of. If somebody can't get you down then that just strengthens your game.
  14. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    On friday my BJJ gym had its first greco wrestling class, on saturday noone from the friday class showed up as they were all too sore, Wrestling seperates the men from the boys!
  15. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Haha, Greco is awfully hard, haha.
  16. Pompeythegreat

    Pompeythegreat Im Very White Aparently

    Out of interest what is the difference between Greco and freestyle?
  17. Late for dinner

    Late for dinner Valued Member

    ;' )

    Umm you need to seperate the men from the boys in your club? :' S (I would have worded this differently mate :' )

    Actually a bad joke (no slur or prejudice intended - especially since this was one of my first sports :' D ) but it is true that you can't beat wrestling as a sport for forcing you out of your comfort zone and physically exhausting you.

    Good stuff that you guys are looking at wrestling although I would say you need to give freestyle a look as it is a whole new dimension. Loved doing both when I was in school.

  18. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    Greco allows upper body attacks only, no leg attacks or use of the legs, free style allows both upper body and lower body attacks
  19. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Greco = lots of suplexes :D
  20. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Well-Known Member Supporter

    How has your shooting been coming along by the way? Have you been throwing in a lot of extra reps with shooting or just naturally getting better at it in practices?

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