World Hapkido Association still lists Choe, Hui Son - why?

Hello all,

Here is a clip from a story about murderer Choe of the World Hapkido Association - can anyone tell me why this group still lists him and sells his materials? Does any of the money go tothe victims family?

"6/7/2001, by Noel S. Brady, reporter for Eastside Journal in Washington State

A martial arts master yesterday struck a plea bargain with prosecutors and admitted to wielding a samurai sword that caused the death of a Bellevue business man.

Hui Son Choe, 40, pleaded guilty to first-degree manslaughter for the death of 37-year-old Ki Gol Lee, which occurred after an argument between the two men turned violent.

King County Prosecutor's spokesman Dan Donohoe said the state will recommend a judge sentence Lee to 9½ years in prison. A sentencing hearing is scheduled for June 29.

At the time of the April 2000 melee, Choe lived in Spanaway and ran a martial arts school in Federal Way. A seventh-degree black belt in Tae Kwon Do, Choe also was well respected as a master and innovator of Hap Ki Do, a lesser-known martial art about which he's written a book.

A Korean immigrant who helped other Koreans secure home and business loans, Lee showed up at Choe's dojo and confronted him in a parking lot there, prosecutors say. Witnesses told police the two began arguing, but a fight broke out after Choe rushed Lee with a drawn samurai sword.

The fight ended after Lee sustained a 2½-foot-long gash to his inner right thigh, severing his femoral artery. He died early the next morning at Harborview Medical Center.

Detectives followed a trail of blood into Choe's school. Inside, they found a bloody samurai sword and blood-spattered clothing that matched witness' descriptions of the sword fighter.

They later arrested Choe at his Spanaway home.

Donohoe said it's still unclear what the two men where arguing about. Prosecutors originally charged Choe with second-degree murder, but that charge was reduced for lack of evidence, he said.

``We felt there were some proof problems to get murder-two,'' he said."

Any of you in this group care to comment?

 

This is the first I have heard of this issue. I know Master Jung and will be speaking to him and his Pro HKD tourney director next week. I will bring up this subject and get their opinion. If it is appropriate, I will post said reply.

I would not jump to conclusions and judge the whole WHA, its members, staff and management based on this admittedly tragic story.

 

I would.

I would like to comment on your sudden revelation on this forum after how many years after the fact (+5 years). I would like to comment on how you outrightly claimed that Choe Hui Son was a "murderer", when as it turns out, he had apparently fired his original lawyers, and reversed his plea, and there has been no apparent developments since that point. I would like to comment on how you latched on to this news story through a third party's website, rather than provide follow-ups on the development of this tragic event. If in the end it is proven that he killed Mr. Lee, then you have a valid point, but until that point is reached, you are just grandstanding and being opportunistic.

http://www.kingcountyjournal.com/si...d=1&end_y=2005&end_m=5&end_d=28&action=Search

My question to you is why do you feel you need to discredit this particular organization with a feigned sense of offended morality, which is an interesting motivation given that you arrogantly claim that you "preserve authentic hapkido for future generations".

If you want to validate your organization and have people see what you organization is about, then actually show to people you have the skill and the comportment of a person from a good organization rather than demonstrate how puerile you are.

Austin

 

Good points Austinso.

I tend to agree with you wholeheartedly, I was simply waiting until I heard from the WHA "horses mouth"- so to speak.

I do not know what Iron Ox's agenda is, and neither would I cast aspersions on his motivations. I will say that his signature line is a bit offputting to those of us who have trained hard, earned our ranks, started our own schools, and have a wealth of knowledge in not only our particular systems, but in others, and have quite a bit of "street cred" to back up our own take on our arts.

As for Mstr Choe, I could not find any updates beyond what was stated here and on what appears to be the source of the story. I would like to hear the whole story and confer with those involved with the WHA, that only seems fair.

I simply could not let his post go without a response at all. Glad to kow I am not alone.

 

Hello all,

Well, um, no particular agenda - just asked a question considering that the King COunty journal reported that June 29, 2001, Choe - who plead guilty to the crime was going to be sentenced.

If there was no sentence, what was the outcome of the trial?

Finally, no feigned offended morality here - he PLEAD GUILTY to the crime - my question is why would any organization want to continue to list him on their roles -

Why is it arrogant to claim that I preserve authentic Hapkido? I make no claim to be the only one - just that I am one who is - nothing arrogant at all in that. After training 26+ years in the art, and seeing what is passed off as Hapkido in the US, don't even feel the line is inappropriate.

Try not to use deflection to raise a point.

If you have further information, let's have it, I got emailed this bit after a discussion about the WHA on another board. I asked why the WHA lists him - if the story is wrong, post a link to the reversal of his guilty plea, and hey, let the man have his day in court - but as the only offered information seems to say he plead guilty to the crime - well, Austin, I question your motivation to defend such actions - but can you speak for the WHA with a statement of purpose as to the action here?

So can you provide a further source?

Master Seveney, sorry that my sig. line is "offputting" - I have NO idea why anyone would think that given how inocuous it is. "Peserving Hapkido for Future Generations" - no dig here, but I'm glad to see that you have your own school and "knowledge of your own system and others" - but what does that have to do with my sig. line? You seem to assume that becasue I don' list every art I have exposure to that I possibly don' have any? I only teach Hapkido - so that is all I list - and that is my primary interest. Again, no dig here, because I do not know you but what does "street cred" have to do with Hapkido? I teach the system as passed down from Dojunim Choi, I make no claims to have "my own take" on his art - just his brilliance is my guide for technique. Again, no dig intended, but your comment seems unwarranted given your defense of it.

 

Two things-
First, in my own, perhaps poorly communicated way, I was trying to defend your post when I said that I neither knew what your agenda nor your motivation was. You raise a valid question. That is what my first post states. It is a good question and I will be asking the powers that be over the WHA asap. Because of the nature of the story, and knowing Master Jung as I do, I am sure that there will be some pain and bad feelings regarding the situation. That is why I also said that the result of my conversation with them may or may not be appropriate to post here. If it is something that is "family business", I am not as likely to post it. Since I am not a WHA member, I do not feel comfortable talking about the details of WHA business without thier ok.

Second, your signature is neither innacurate nor offputting. I apologize for my previous statement. I am used to our system being so fragmented with one person claiming to do "real" HKD while others do not that I often have knee-jerk reactions to statements. I freely admit that what I do may not be "orthadox" HKD, but I can also trace my line to Dojunim Choi. My GM was, and still is, a military man and I learned the system from a more military perspective than most. I also have to deal with a serious case of "my kung-fu is better than your kung-fu" in my local area. There are some schools here that make claims that are wildly innacurate and misleading to their students, while a legit guy like me (with a combat resume' a mile long) gets put into a position where I have to try to prove my qualifications against these fantasy merchants. Imagine you are advertising your school in a normal fashion while another school offers to make new students into Jedi Knights. Ridiculous? You bet. Wildly innacurate? Oh yea. But the newbie does not know the difference and I look like a nut because I won't offer to help them master the force. So I get defensive when someone's statements could be taken as "I know what I am doing and you do not." I am afraid you fell into my mental trap... sorry.

Though I must be intellectually honest and admit that Austin brings up a good point too. Perhaps you can understand my statements regarding your post and sig if you look at the questions he raises from a 3rd party perspective.

And so it begins...

 

Hello Master Seveney,

Thanks so much for clarifying your point. We see eye to eye on everything you wrote.

I'm really not looking to pick a fight here with the WHA, just wanted some clarification.

This story does seem to have ended with a guilty plea in front of a judge. See below link...

http://www.kingcountyjournal.com/sited/story/html/56179

The follow-up story does say he MIGHT change his plea (that he already made) - so, this leads to more questions. However, when a plea bargain is reached and sentencing is to occur, it is rare for judges to allow a change of heart - who knows -

http://www.kingcountyjournal.com/sited/story/html/58596

Sorry if I didn't come off as tactful - and I do understand your irritation with the "we make Jedi" thing...

Austin, puerile, good word - hardly appropriate here however. I do not seek to validate anything here, through this thread, but am questioning the motives of a group listing such a man. Sad how the challenged try to redirect focus of a question away from the issue and scream "you are {fill in the blank here}" rather than face the question at hand. And I still cannot get over your statement of my "feigned offended morality" - from all accounts, an unarmed man was killed with a sword by a Hapkido Master during a verbal confrontation - no feigning here, that sickens me - I hope others are equally as offended and appauled at such actions.

 

Well...as much as there are no motives in your original post, I'm sure there are equally no motives about keeping the books and videos for sale. I'm not a spokeperson for any organization.

As Mateo, my senior, mentioned, you just threw that comment out there. And one must question the motivation for throwing it out as you did.

Indeed.

Did I not face the question at hand? I went to the news site and searched for the information. I also read that the situation is a lot more complex than would have believed through the original post. After the 4 years since this Choe fired his lawyers and reversed his plea, there has been no story to follow, and yet you are going by the conclusions made by that initial story.

Then I said that if there was clear evidence that this man acted in this appalling behaviour, then yes by all means an organization should not be supporting this man through the selling of any paraphenalia associated with this person. And that is something that is up to discussion with those associated with the WHA who can actually get an answer from the president.

I think that on the surface as the story is presented, it is truly pathetic.

But it is so pathetic that it makes one (myself at least) think a bit more about the situation rather than take things simply at face value. Which is why I, with no affiliation with any organization save for the nature of the relationship that Master Hwang may have with any given organization, thought that maybe there was more to it than simply as presented.

In the same way, some people are willing to accept that what you do "preserves authentic HKD for future generations", and some people would rather think there is something to it other than taking that statement at face value.

http://www.intlhapkidousa.com/history_hap_ki_do.asp

Austin

 

This was quite simple to find if one actually tried to:

=============

Martial artist expected to change guilty plea: Hap Ki Do master changes his mind, fires attorney before sentencing hearing
2001-06-30
by Erica Jahn
Journal Reporter

Hap Ki Do master Hui Son Choe, who pleaded guilty to first-degree manslaughter, changed his mind and fired his lawyer before his scheduled sentencing yesterday.

In place of Tacoma attorney Gary Clower, Choe hired Seattle attorneys John Henry Browne and Timothy Dole to represent him. Both were out of town and unavailable for comment yesterday.

Choe's new sentencing date is scheduled for Aug. 24.

In addition to hiring new counsel, Choe is expected to change his plea, King County Prosecutor's Office spokesman Dan Donohoe said.

Choe admitted as part of a June 6 plea bargain that he slashed 37-year-old Bellevue businessman Ki Gol Lee in the leg with a samurai sword during an April 2000 altercation.

Witnesses told police they saw Lee and Choe arguing in the parking lot of Choe's Hap Ki Do martial arts studio in Federal Way on April 9, 2000.

The argument escalated and Choe charged at Lee with the sword drawn, according to court papers.

Lee kicked at Choe, and Choe ``lunged toward him with the sword,'' severing the femoral artery in his leg. Lee died the next morning at Harborview Medical Center.

Under the plea agreement, prosecutors recommended Choe serve 9½ years for first-degree manslaughter.

Donohoe declined to comment on why Choe is planning to change his plea, but said as far as prosecutors know, Choe understood the charges he was pleading to.

The World Hap Ki Do Association declined to comment.

==============

That was 4 years ago, so the obvious question to ask is if he is in jail or not rather than taking things at face value.

Austin

 

This whole arguement stinks of propoganda and P.R. . I think we all know court rulings have little to do with right and wrong , morality , or justice .


No the question is did he cut the man and if so why did he cut the man . Not if he can buy his way out with better lawyers ...or if the prosecutors can bully him into a plea bargain .

I mean not to be all rude .... Just Saying is all .....* wonders off *

 

Does anyone know if Choe's school(s) are still in operation? I'm looking for a Hapkido school to train in near me(Tacoma, WA) and the nearest one I can find from what I can tell isn't really teaching hapkido but something else that maybe using hapkido as it's base but is something else.

 

powerofone, if you don't mind a short drive north I could recomend a school in Redmond with branches throughout Seattle as well. PM me if you are interested.
I am also interested as to the updated version of the Choe situation and I could find no recent info. Anyone else have any luck yet?

 

Inquiring minds want to know ....

any new info out there yet ?

 

Master Choe Hui Son was an honorable man. It's interesting the series of events that followed his temporary absence from our dojo in Spanaway WA. I remember clear as day, we went to visit Master Choe and his family, but it wasn't for long. I asked my mom i something was wrong because he was not acting like himself she told me everything was just fine. He is a fine man and treated all of us like his own children with love, kindness, and respect to all people including old, lazy and crazy. I have a twin sister and she and I used to laugh and play and he would say you need to focus that energy with your partner and this bag. Sadly, we made it to our orange belts and had to quit because of an accident going to our study one fateful day. If I could meet a Master such as Master Choe it would be amazing and the greatest blessing for my son and myself. Do not under-estimate the coordination of his conviction outside of prison and inside of prison he does not act out of complete anger unless he is threatened or his family. His belief is strong and his heart is even stronger. Continuous acts to debilitate his mental stability and his soul reason for existence will be his test of life. He spends his life in prison, but he spins his mind, heart and soul with true faith! I pray that after all these years he still has it in him... Love the giggly twins!!!!

 

7 years...7 YEARS!!

After this thread had been declared dead and buried you bring it back and say....well nothing really

 

Hui-son Choe's jail time

When I first heard of this story (around 2004, I think), I followed up with the D.A.'s office and got this reply:

"Hui-son Choe was convicted of first-degree manslaughter, and he was
sentenced to 110 months confinement on September 13, 2002. I believe the
defendant is still in custody of the Washington State Department of Corrections
(DOC). You can contact DOC at (206) 254-4830."

If anyone is interested in his prison record, just contact the police.

 

Christ what an absolute load of toss. This is old news and the last thing we need is this sort of garbage posted at MAP. Say goodnight.