Have to disagree with the previous two posters. Some lifting can be beneficial, only if you practice an equal amount of softening work (zhan zhuang, mainly). I would recommend against large amounts of heavy lifting. If you want to develop good skill in taiji, then there are other things that you should spend your time going.
Really?One of Cheng,Man-ch'ing's "bums"-(see Wolfe Lowenthal's books)-was a regular lifter.Not that he was lifting at a competitive powerlifting level,but he wasn't handling Mickey Mouse poundages for sure.Heavy lifting in my estimation. He was very strong if he needed to utilize it,but in his TC practice had very soft power,no residual tension at odds with correct application.I pushed w/him numerous times,and observed him when he pushed w/others.He didn't practice ZZ either.Just concentrated on using only what was minimally necessary to move the body,whether in form or ph.For hours. However,if you're a beginner in both and lift heavy and only practice whatever TC training you do for a half hour or so a day it could be more difficult for you to attain a deeper level of relaxation initially.I have seen this in students.Also in experienced older lifters just starting TC.It's really about paying attention to how much muscular activity you need,and paring down to just that,such as CMC's student above. We've had this discussion here before.I always like to remind people that many of the early practitioners were farmers or involved in other manual labor.Yet they seemed to pull off their TC-(or HI,or PK)-well.Explain why doing heavy manual labor all day and into the evening was ok for them,but lifting maybe 3 times a week is so detrimental.It doesn't add up.
Depends on the lifting. If you are Bulking up then it will be bad however if you are developing strength and endurance it will be good. No martial artist should be looking to acquire large bulk muscles they are slow and counter productive in fighting. The Bear.
I think I was getting at what PB has said. And you also touched on part of my meaning - that for a new student, lifting weights may initially be detrimental. RE: CMC's bloke, sure he may have been training weights, but you also confirm what I said in my original post - he is counter balancing with softening work. Although it may not be ZZ, form work and push hands can also be utilised to the same effect.
I should hope not, in addition to TC and other MA im currently trying to bulk out a bit, mainly for vanity reasons admittedly... the slappers in the nightclubs love those **** with club biceps. xD I'd imagine as long as you make sure you can lift but not carry the tension round after then it would be no problem right? And be careful not to develop a side dominance, eg more dumbbell less barbell....
Ha yeah, we have a term for it in swordsmanship .... Wallhanger. It refers to a sword that looks pretty but no use for fighting with and Girls do like Wallhanging men. The Bear.
I have been liften weights in 1 and a half year now. I am doing 15 reps x3, im thinking of just skipping all liften and doing some cardio (or how ever you spell it) or some running. I train 3 times a week, 1-2 hours.
AH HA!You failed to mention beginners in your first post.Or bulking.And then you say that's what you meant.Drop and give me twenty,Mister! But seriously....As to counterbalancing,if one is spending much time at all in the TC specific training,you'll be spending much more actual time in that than the time you actually spend lifting. But of course I agree w/you.Just pointing out,due to your stating "zhan zhuang, mainly",that it doesn't have to beZZ.And anyway,isn't what I said about how CMC's student trained what one should be doing anyway,even if one isn't lifting? Maretti-while I have known/taught quite a few big/strong/bigandstrong guys who studied TC,athletic and/or martially oriented types quite often see someone doing solo form and figure "Why bother?"Remember also that most people looking for martial skill/combat sport training won't even consider TC regardless of their size.And even if they did,it's probably not available in that vein for most folks outside of a large city. Actually,a common complaint years ago in the general MA world from big guys was that there often weren't comparable sized people in their clubs,so that once some decent skills had been attained pitting themselves against anyone in their school who didn't have superior skills wasn't very satisfying from either a competitive or developmental view. Come to think of it,even the boxing gym in my town never has near the amount of heavyweights as opposed to mid and welters.Probably since many take it up to learn to handle themselves if need be,bigger guys don't feel the need as much.Most of the big guys I knew were playing basketball,rugby,or other team sports. Good point by the Bear.The main purpose of your lifting shouldn't be enlargement.
Sorry, but between December 25th and January 1st, I can't be held responsible for any unclear comments I make. At this time of year, I rarely get sobered up enough to check what I'm saying. Sure, most definately
heavy lifting, It is fine to lift if you do it in a taiji way - just enough energy to accomplish the task and remain relaxed. I asked my teacher the same question when I started out and that was his answer. I was concerned because I am a carpenter and at the time was doing residential construction. It turned out to be a benefit that helped me build taiji power. After a while of being mindful of the above idea I found I could move a wheel barrow with about 300lbs of concrete inside and didn't even need to fully close my hands around the handles! One thing I would suggest if someone is starting out in taiji is don't use a heavy bag for striking practice for a few years. After that it should be ok when the "taiji body" has emerged a little and they have gained some "relax". If in doubt after any lifting just finish off with 5-10min of the Begining of Taiji movement to help get rid of eny potential stiffness. Best
If one shouldn't strike objects "for a few years" then does this mean one should not be striking one's classmates for a few years either? Why wouldn't your advice for lifting be just as applicable for striking objects?
The question is "what" did he lift. Farming and daily lifting are natural movements. Heavy lifting things like bench presses tend to lock your muscles into a certain patter thats not natural movement. Even when you do push ups your not locked completely. With the weight bar your hands have to be a specific alignment. Kettle bells and stone locks as well as Indian clubs, tend to lend to more natural movement, while still being heavy weight. Also you want to work the fast twitch reflex muscle near the bone. if you heap muscle on top of this you will slow yourself down and have muscle working against muscle. TC training tries to make your body work as efficiently as possible. Low weight lotsa reps is the key to working that particular muscle group.
Okay so i should only train with my own body? Like chin ups, push ups and so on? Also you say low weight and many reps. Are you talking about 15 reps with low weights? So i dont need to be like in the red zone when i work out and only use maybe 50% of my strenght?
working out & Taiji Hi All, E.M.: Animate and inanimate objects do not react the same in relation to striking. As you may know, Taiji doesn't just go up and strike an opponent ideally. Just like the push, the strike should be utilized so "four ounces can move one thousand pounds" - i.e.: after some other momentum is in action. But hitting the heavy bag can cause a lot more stiffness and hard power to develop than lifting weights or calesthenics. Traditionally using the heavy bag at all is frowned upon in Taiji. My great grand teacher, Li Ya Xuan made this very clear in an article you can find in Qi Journal. I posted the link in another post but you can just google it. Other exercise is fine if you feel the need to compliment Taiji training, however Taiji energy and internal power can be developed in abundance through the curriculum we have traditionally - Forms, PH, Standing medititation. Best
