Women in the FMA

I think if the open tournament is "opt in" for women with no associated pressure, it shouldn't be an issue. Now the million dollar question - will I ever see an world open champion who's female?

 

I'll get you silly drunk in return for some stick lessons?

 

You never know untill you try, you have to start somewhere and it might take a while but I beleive once everyone has accepted that women can through choice comepte alongside men, it will only be a matter of time before you see a woman world champion who has fought and defeated the men on an equal basis.

It was not hat long ago when we beleived that the world was flat, we know different now.

 

Phew you must have lots of money, that in it's self is a task on it's own, but you got a deal

 

No no no. NO! Women and men are not completely equal. While they are of equal value to a nation or an organization, they are just not equal when it comes to fighting. And what I mean to say, is that ON AVERAGE, or GENERALLY men are better warriors than women. Why is Lucy Omalley so revered (if she is), because she is a woman that can beat some men. Not all women can beat some men. I mean come on. It's time we stop deceiving ourselves.
Men are taller on average. True?
Men are faster on average. True? (Just check the olympic track records).
Men are stronger on average. True? (check the weightlifting records).

Speed, strength and reach are (the first two mainly) have a large say in the way a fight turns out. If men on average posess the first 2 qualities in higher quantities than women, why shouldn't they win most of the time?

I say equivalent, but not equal.

 

I think were' all arguing different things..

Most of us will accept that
Between an "Average" man and woman, the Man probably has the edge because of the factors scarlet pointed out and the differences in the averages between the sexes. People will say that weapons are the great equalizer and this may be true, but if you were to pick 5 men and 5 women of the street, I know what odds a bookmaker would give. Of course, with SKILLED opponents, it may be different... I think Pats original point that I for one lost is "If they are equally skilled"...

If you take skill to mean "Total ability", i.e. the combination of training, athletic prowess, attitude and any sexual advantage that may or may not exist then if they are equal, they should be evenly matched and the result not a forgone conclusion.

This begs such questions as
If you were to take 50 men and 50 women and train them equally for 2 years and then test them, would the ranking be skewed by gender? Now of course this is hard to measure, because men tend to be bigger. If you saw bigger beating smaller, with women of a certain size having parity with the men you could argue “no – gender is not an issue,”, although there would still be a multicolinearity issue with size and gender (proven). People here have also advocated that with weapons, size is not an advantage. This may be true.

I think a modern society should allow people to compete how they want, and should offer the same support to any group. I think that fact that currently MA is male dominated may be an issue, but is probably a different subject.

But I will make this point. Generally, as sexes, Women are better at some things, Men at others, of course these are averages of billions of people and any one person can be anywhere on the scale, but non the less the skewing is real, and most scientists will agree.

This skewing can come from “Nurture or Nature” as psychologists suggest. “Nurture” would be upbringing, societal norms and value systems etc. e.g. – boys play with guns, girls play with dolls. THIS CAN BE CHANGED through time as society evolves. “Nature” would be genetic – Men do tend to be bigger, there are body differences to accommodate our reproductive differences, etc. When asked “Nurture or Nature”, most psychologists will say “Both”. There’s a LOT of reading out there to enjoy on the subject.

Men and women are EQUAL but DIFFERENT, and there is a sexual aptitude bias that favours women in some things and men in others. The French say “Vive la difference”, and I concur. Look, I’m agreeing with the French now! Crazy times indeed.



This took me ages to type! Let’s afford everyone the same opportunities, but not let Political Correctness come in the way of rational thought. I appreciate there is an underlying equality issue and that for a long time there was not equality, if there even is today. I for one am happy to embrace women as my equals. Aww, I’m just happy to embrace women.

 

I WANT TO MEET LUCY O'MALLEY!!! She is my new hero!

 

Yeah, I wanna meet her too. Fancy a spar Lucy?

 

i couldnt resist

Hiya

As the name suggests, i am of the female persuasion and also stickfight (well i am actually retired now).
i couldnt resist replying to this thread

Richie rich said that women should be fighting the men? been there and done that as have any of the women who have fought for wekaf uk.

Due to the small numbers of women fighting it is common practise for a woman to fight in the mens divisions, and more than often beat them. I have had fights rigged so that a male fighter avoids sparring with me as i have repeatedly beaten him in other matches (british opens against a feller called ash), but i havent just competed at uk level but also at european level, i took a 3 round match against an italian coach to 4 rounds and it resulted in a split decision with him gaining the fight, however i had the dutch judge come over to me to say that i by far exceled over the other fight, now im 5ft3 small build and he outweighed me easily by 3-4 stone.
also worth mentioning is jodie grist who also fought in the euro open weight and exceled against the male fighters that she fought and beat. plus rosie stannings who always fights in the mens division and lucy omalley, who really is as scary and blindingly excellent as she says.

Its not a womens ability or lack there of, but how they train and their instructers attitude toward them. many instructers doubt the womens ability and never allow them to fulfil their potential, how can women over come obstacles such as these when they are so pigone holed?? i have great respect for the italian that i fought against as he did not hold back against me despite his social values.

so many men say they hold back against a women as they feel its not right to hit them, but imagine if your wife/daughter, loved one is raped, wouldnt you give anything to turn back time in order to give them the abiltiy to defend themselves?? yet you hold back on the women who have the guts (and believe me it takes alot to enter a male dominated area such a dojo) denying them the right to learn to defend themselves properly because they are just to pretty to be hit or social constraints make you believe its not right?? if a womens chooses to join an all women class then fine, but if a woman joins a mixed class then you should give her the respect she deserves, yes she may not be able to take a hit at first but your average man off the street wouldnt be able to take a hit as well if its delivered by a hard training thai boxer/mma of fma'ist.

and to those who believe that kali was developed by a blind goddess are you not demeaning your own sport by saying that women cant handle a weapon as well as a man

i can and will defend myself and i can and have beaten men
as have women for generations
and as they will do in the future

respect and love

stickgirl

 

I can recall my first tournament. I was practicing shotokan at the time. I was doing decently in katas and fighting, but when it came down to it they didnt have many people in my age group. So my last opponent was a girl. she was a purple belt which didnt exist in my dojo so im not sure if she was higher or lower than me i was a green belt at the time, but anyway i remember getting owned by this said girl. Now i wasn't "great" but i could hold my own and i was doing well so far, but i got only one point on this girl, and well lets just say i went home with 2nd. i def had a good 10lbs and sum change on this girl, but i still lost. So i guess men vs women matches arent so bad.

 

Stickgirl - there are some women who can fight with men.. but my point was men have inherent genetic advantages. I'm not advaocating different training if you can hang ith the guys good for you, but you yourself have adressed the diffences in your post. If you beleive Kali was developed my a blind godess then that's great but doesn't really add much credability in my eyes.

I'm all for self defense for women and believe martial arts are a great detterent and defense from would be assailants.

 

I will get her to answer you later in the week as she is busy at the moment. But I am sure she will spar you after she has my next kid, especially if you pay the airflights to Jamaca.

 

No 2 men are completely equal, be it size, strength or speed.

But take 1 man and 1 woman of equal weight and ability, who wins????

There is onlyone way to find out, spar.

Oh by the way RichieRich, I actually liked you last post that you took so long to write, it had a lot of valid points.

We have just got back from a long trip so Lucy is resting at the moment, but I am sure she will log on later in the week to give her points, especially as we have just had an e-mail to confirm her OWN account is now open.

Mabuhay


Pat

 

Cheers Pat. How long until The OMalley clan are due to be +1?

 

Hey Stickgirl,
Me thinks me knows you more than very well, PM me. :love:
Me thinks I have had more than a slight hand in training you???

All the best


Pat.

 

Due 2nd week in Jan 05. Find out soon if it is a boy or girl, Lucy informs me that girls are trouble and if it is and she takes after her mother, well all I can say is us poor boys in the house are in trouble.

Pat

 

hiya



i dont believe the blind goddess thing, but alot of "kali" practioners do (mainly american, no offence), it was just to highlight some practioners beliefs.

Yes there are differences between men and women that cannot be denied but the question was about women in fma, and in my opinion a women can hold her own in this sport against men, including those bigger than themselves. When i first started martial arts i was your typical cant do it/giggle all the time girl, found it very difficult to pick up and was a walking clumsy disaster zone, however my instructers were fantastic and saw past this and gave me the confidence in my own ability, which so many girls lack in the dojo and therefore dont build the skill levels to match the men.

yes men may be more inclined to war, good for them if they find that something to be soo proud off, but you put any womens child in danger and she will fight tooth and nail for them, thats called instinct.

it takes guts for women to go to a martial arts class and men should encourage and work with them in order to build there abilities, regardless of their skill levels, everyone starts somewhere.

kisses
stick girl

 

I'm not disagreeing - most men would fight tooth and nail for their kids too.. I don't think its war per see, just a throwback to Darwinistic forces. Competative is good for the species as a whole.

 

it was more for scarlett than for you.
i used to be very hot headed over this discussion, but have learned to call it down.
No matter how much you argue, people will always under estimate womens abilities.
But then everyone is entitled to their own beliefs
in the dawin theme, if it is survival of the fittest and women were as weak as some men choose to believe wouldnt women have died out millenia ago and men have found some way of reproducing, like the multi sex slug or the sea horse...he he
that can be taken as seriously or as stupidly as you like

 

Oh come on Stickgirl, If it were no for us men, who would cut the grass