Why Are Backfists Illegal In Boxing

Discussion in 'Boxing' started by hulkout, Dec 31, 2008.

  1. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Thanks for the reply jwt. I was asking because, just like with all striking, there is good and there is not so good or bad technique. I see a lot of back fists actually hitting as back of hand strikes, and these tend to not be good.

    Being hit with a good back FIST technique is a ton more effective then being hit with a back hand. The key is applying the most force to the smallest area.

    I've been hit with a back fist to the point just below the ear along the jaw line, at the same time this was a compound strike with the forearm coming in under my chin and across my Carotid artery. I started to see "stars", my legs got weak, and THEN I felt the pain from the hit. I went down to one knee and took an 8 count to recover (this would not have worked in MMA but that day it did because of the rules!!!). The stars went away, but the pain was there for several minutes.

    I did not get knocked out lucky for me, but the next punch would have floored me.

    Later I was shown what hit me. The thing about this is that the hit was good, but then I was shown an open handed version of it by the same person where instead of the back fist, it was more like a back slap with the knuckles hitting... and it was just as good if not better, and it only took half the distance to hit effectively.

    Goes to show that even something good, might have something even better as a variation.
  2. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Well, it depends. As in my previous post, the back fist that is also a forearm strike across the throat and under the chin is really good. The backfist can also be a back knuckle rake to cut open the opponent and make them bleed.

    The spinning backfist can generate a lot of power, not sure how practical it is, but it is a good "sucker punch"

    The back hand slap is good... a good slap boxer generally can dominate most orthodox boxers in a fight without gloves... just ask anyone who has seen prison fights.

    But I digress outside of boxing...
  3. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    I would think that to execute a powerfull backfist you would expose the ribs to a good boxer. Not a good exchange.

    regards koyo
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2009
  4. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Yes sir!

    What happens is I pretty much have to use my other hand and put it across my ribs to protect it from getting punched. As the back fist strikes, the other hand is pulled back in a way to create a recoil/rebound whip effect.

    This is one of the reasons that rather than a backfist, it is a back forearm that is used to strike, as you want to be close-in and very linear on the strike to keep it as quick and tight with least amount of time left "open".

    P.S. for the above that would be a straight in backfist/forearm. For reducing the time on a spinning backfist, you can adjust the tension on a double-ended ball/bag so that you hit the bag, spin and hit it again as it rebounds back from the first hit. The tension should not be so tight that the ball rebounds too quickly and just hits you in the back of the head as you spin. Adjust the tension as needed.
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2009
  5. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Y'know, that is something I never thought of! I usually get away with it in TKD and Kickboxing, because I lift my front leg into a high chamber and hide behind the knee for protection, but I often get tagged with a solid body hook if I ever try this in boxing (which is rarely, prefer using the jab myself). Mind if I borrow your suggestion and use it in training tomorrow?
  6. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Well yes you can, but seriously, this is for close in fighting, so close that you could actually elbow them. For boxing and in general, I highly recommend keeping the elbows down and use the elbows and forearms to protect the rib area. Don't forget you got kidneys, spleen, liver and all sorts of vital areas around there to protect.

    On a lighter note, you could buy a pair of over-sized shorts and pull them up to your armpits, since no hits allowed below the belt, this should protect your body, unless they are a dirty fighter... hehe

    edit: Superfoot, I should have clarified that the hand over the ribs cover is used mostly for the moment that you close the gap from punching to elbow range when sideways to your opponent. It is only for an instant and often combined with a forearm strike/backfist, as well as leg sweep. The cover itself with the hand, can also be a strike to the ribs of the opponent, although it isn't a powerful strike, the combination of that hit with the other following can have an "activation" effect on the nervous system.
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2009
  7. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    He he he... considering I'm 5'3" on a good day, even normal sized shorts come up to my armpits! Opponent sees just my head and feet sticking out lol :D
  8. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    If you can kick like your hero Mr wallace that makes you around 7'00"

    regards koyo
  9. lklawson

    lklawson Valued Member

    The backfist and the hammerfist were staples of old boxing (classic pugilism) in the London Prize-ring Rules (LPR) and earlier. They were called (usually) "the Chopper" and were used to good effect, usually after a high-line parry, though Jack Slack used it from an elbow-point guard (addopted by the WWII era Combatives instructor Carl Cestari as the "Vampire Guard").

    It was not considered a knockout blow but rather a punishing attack used to break the nose, cut they brow, and blind by swelling the eyes and flooding them with blood from the cut brow.

    As has already been mentioned, the spinning back-fist was known as the Pivot Blow and was legal up until later in the LPR era when the Marquis of Queensberry (MoQ) rules started to overtake the sport. By the time of Fitzsimmons it was called the "Foul Pivot Blow."

    As has also been mentioned, the primary reason neither are legal today is the requirement to strike only with the front of the glove.

    Peace favor your sword,
  10. Punchy

    Punchy Purely Practical

    Max Baer - Hammerfists

    Have a look at this old newsreel of the Baer-Schmelling fight. In round 10 you will see Baer use some hammerfists and the referee does not seem to mind.

    [ame="http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=WyB36AyaYWs"]YouTube - Max Baer -vs- Max Schmeling 6/8/33 part 3[/ame]

    Maybe they were legal then.
  11. cowzerp

    cowzerp Valued Member

    suprised nobody else knew this.

    its illegal to strike with any other part of the glove than the knuckle part, this is the front part of the glove-in a back fist the "back of the fist" is the part to land, hence why it is illegal.
  12. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Clearly there's a difference between a back fist strike and a back knuckle strike, which previous posters have highlighted.

    Who then on here would agree to back knuckle strikes being included? It strikes with the knuckle after all...
  13. DaeHanL

    DaeHanL FortuneCracker

    nah. boxing is a sport, it's fine the way it is. it's up to the martial artist to make changes where they see fit. if we're boxing each other, i expect my partner/opponent to abide by the rules of boxing. if we're sparring, that's another thing, lol.
  14. Josh_Glenn

    Josh_Glenn Valued Member

    i do the opposite of a back fist, its faster. i dunno what to call it. imagine throwing a curve ball, the arm becomes like a whip. i incorporated it from some chinese kendo or another and mixed it into boxing.

    point is, this punch cracks also!
  15. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Anything like a hook punch???
  16. Josh_Glenn

    Josh_Glenn Valued Member

    kind of, with a snap!

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