White Collar Boxing Fatality

Have to wait until the post mortem to see if it was an underlying condition or some other unknown factor.

At the end of the day it's adults making the decision. If someone takes up horse riding and dies from a fall a few weeks later, people don't call for an end to horse riding. As long as the event wasn't reckless with safety I think it sounds like an anomaly.

 

I'm going out on a limb to say that the media covering this tragedy seem to be milking it, especially the parts where they go on Twitter, as if it's a viable commentary source, and pull stuff from random "experts" about various things...headgear, training time, depth of experience, etc.

Factually, there have been a couple deaths and injuries made public from this UWCB charity circuit, but they've also raised something like 25M to fight cancer, and 100,000+ have participated.

Here's a particularly bad, tasteless take. "Boxing horror", right. Sure boxing is pretty horrible if you get really, really close, have no stomach for blood and don't really understand how pugilism works.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-boxing-horror-man-dies-29605285

 

However if there was a "charity horse riding competition" that gave people 16 hours of tuition and then made them compete at a much higher level then someone with 16 hours training should do, then the organising the event would be at least partially responsible.

Personally I think 8 weeks training at twice a week, isn't enough, the charity side of things is overstated to make it easier to sell the tickets, (the events make much more money then get donated) and that also means the person has social peer pressure to not back out.
I'm not a fan, and that's not even going into the general poor/dangerous level of match making.

 

What does "these people" mean. We have no idea what Jubal Reji Kurian's training was like.

Boxing injuries are common. Serious injuries are common in all sports, especially combat sports.

It's sad that people pass judgement on the dead fighter, thinking well, he was just not trained enough. I've been in the fight games long enough to know better.

 

The British media is making this out like it's Bloodsport and they're throwing what you'd call "people" into a lion's den for money.

I looked into the UWCB. It seems like standard amateur boxing, various levels of skill, and for a good cause.

But if you ask any number of British tabloids, it's BOXING HORROR. You folks have a serious media frenzy problem, and it's detrimental to the future of pugilism if you ask me. Nobody who signs up for such things does so lightly. And given that we're a board full of martial artistes, I would think that anybody here would accept that competing at any sort of full contact intensity comes with risks including death, permanent brain damage, disfigurement, limb incapacitation, and a lot of other stuff I won't dwell on.



MOD Note. Watch the profanity please.

 

The UWC group are running unlicensed boxing events, so the bloodsport reference isn't totally incorrect.

They have lower standards then boxing England will accept.


https://ultrawhitecollarboxing.co.uk/is-white-collar-boxing-regulated/

 

That's because they are throwing "people" into dangerous situations without sufficient prep or show standards.

Also you may want to delete your swearing, English speaking forum and all that.

 

Lower standards such as?

Keep in mind I'm an American. Our standards are already pretty low.

 

I've been watching a lot of Ted Lasso recently, sorry.

Does everyone who competes have no training background at all , prior to showing up? I find that hard to believe, because plenty of the people competing seem to be well trained, and again, the deceased here (there are at least 2-3 I've read about over the last 2 years) weren't necessarily poorly trained.

Sometimes, people just die on the field. Happens in boxing, football, American football, basketball, tennis...

 

Not letting people who have only had 16 hours training complete, having fully trained doctors at events and not just paramedics, having boxing England coaches coach, and not just anyone they know who can hold a pad (I personally know of some great kickboxing coaches who do UWCB, but they are also very dismissive of some of the other coaches in the franchise (because it is a money making franchise at heart).

 

That's part of the issue, people with prior training also show up, and then compete against people with just the bare minimum 16 hours = lots of injuries/higher risk of death

Mate your country takes daily mass shootings in schools as just one of those things...... Deaths anywhere should be investigated fully, and if a pattern is demonstrated, then changes should occur.

I'd like to see the stats on demographics of participation Vs risk of injury or death, in boxing England events Vs UWC.
I suspect UWC participants would be older, much more likely to have years of drug and alcohol abuse, and be at a much greater risk of injury.

 

I hear you.

Boxing is a money making franchise at its core, yes.

I also think it's impossible to measure someone's training hours. Is there some line item where participants have to attest to at least 16 hours? What you're saying about UWBC sounds similar to many events in the states, especially martial arts tournaments. I'm torn, I like higher standards for boxing, but also there's a need for new blood or the art will die. Sometimes elitists in the sport act as of it's not for any random guy or gal to start throwing down, yet they were them once.

Speaking of blood, I'd take a good paramedic over a "fully trained doctor" at any fight sanctioned or not, but that's just me.

 

The training is twice a week (last I heard) for an hour for eight weeks, also missing weeks/days is also common, and people are supposed to be complete newbies.

So officially 16 hours is the most they could get, perhaps 32 hours if they are two hour classes, (but Im pretty sure it's supposed to be 1 hour classes)

A fully trained emergency doctor, with drugs is better then a paramedic without drugs, but yes anyone "trained" with full access to meds, and a on call ambulance is better then not. Importantly UWC website just says a "medic" which isn't a legal term, so could mean someone with a first aide certificate.

Just to repeat, it's unlicenced boxing, licensed boxing events in the UK have much higher standards.

If you want to box, you go to boxing England, if you want attention and IG clout, you do UWCB.

It's a pity cancer UK are involved, but I also understand money is money.

 

Indeed. But we endeavour, where possible, not to let people who have just passed their driving test into a rally competition or someone who's only ridden a donkey at the beach to rock up at Aintree for a go round the Grand National course.

 

I'd have to see the stats. A cursory search didn't turn anything up.

We do have to be suspicious of claims that the injury rate is lower than football or rugby though; it is life changing, or ending, injuries that really matter, and not broken fingers, toes or sprained ankles.

If the stats show it is a genuine public health risk, then regulate and license it. If not, I think people have the right to do dangerous things as long as they are not endangering others.

 

That's one of the issues, historically boxing clubs didn't train people for unlicensed boxing, but nowadays it's often kickboxing and MMA clubs that are training people for unlicensed boxing bouts, (UWC MMA is another product of the same franchise), of which UWC is one of the many franchises doing it, which all have varying levels of safety, but are generally very poor.

And by participating in unlicensed boxing, you are putting someone else at danger, your opponent.

Ideally these course should be matched well, run over a longer period, and have a full medical before the fight, all of which would cut into the profits, so won't happen unless they are forced to do so legally.

 

What is the law on unlicensed fights? I presumed it would be fairly strict in the UK.

Do you have any info on injuries from white collar boxing matches?