Where is weight in Single Whip and Ward Off?

Discussion in 'Tai chi' started by nefariusmdk, Apr 1, 2013.

  1. nefariusmdk

    nefariusmdk Valued Member

    This is a very basic question, but it has been plaguing me for some time now. My teacher is instructing me that in positions such as Ward Off and Single Whip, 70% of your weight is on the back foot, while 30% of your weight is on the front foot.

    I can understand why this would be proper, since keeping more of your weight on the back foot would keep you rooted to the ground better, but when you are constantly moving around (like in the form), it feels more natural to keep most of the weight on the front foot.

    How are the rest of you doing it for the short amount of time you are standing still in these positions?? Thank you all for your input.
     
  2. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    In Chang and Yang, both single whip and ward off are bow-arrow stance with 70% weight on fornt and 30% weight on back. If you don't shift weight to your front leg, you don't have enough reach.

    Rooting doesn't mean that you always have to keep both feet on the ground. You

    - shift your center of gravity to be outside of your body,
    - let the gravity to pull you,
    - you push/pull your opponent down.
    - You then regain your balance back.

    That's called dynamic rooting.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2013
  3. nefariusmdk

    nefariusmdk Valued Member

    Thank you!! I'm learning Chen Man-Ching's short form (with some variations..) and it's been bothering me for some time.

    What about in other styles of Tai Chi, like Chen or Wu styles??
     
  4. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    Don't know Chen or Wu.
     
  5. Lockjaw

    Lockjaw Killing you softly

    This is also called dynamic balancing, and I'm surprised that it is being discussed as it is often hidden in most tai chi practices, and not taught openly, and only explained to the "inner circle" students.

    When you relax into the turning of the waist and feel how it connects to the legs, you begin a process of rooting while moving that creates a dynamic and springy stability.

    You feel like a giant spring, anchored to the floor even though you’re moving around, that is constantly being wound up and then released.

    Turning from the waist should eventually feel like it directly screws the foot into the floor.

    Turning must go through both legs in all stances.
     
  6. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    70% on the rear in the final position? That's...different. Is this possibly just a method your instructor is having you do at this time? You can do things like p'eng/ward off while on the rear leg but it seem odd to practice the form postures that way exclusively. Cheng sure didn't do it that way.

    Even the systems with a more horsie look to the end position in Whip,such as Chen and Wu,C-c usually have more weight on the forward leg.Old Wu/Li/Hao often finishes with a rear leg follow step and all/nearly all of the weight on the forward leg.

    70/30 is commonly the end distribution in a forward stance in Yang derived systems.70-30 distribution is just a loose reference term,it varies among systems and actually can vary depending on one's depth and length of stance. The late Wu,Ta-yeh did some interesting experiments utilizing 2 bathroom scales some years ago.
     
  7. Johnno

    Johnno Valued Member

    In the Wu style slow form, in the Single Whip posture slightly more weight is on the left leg than on the right. But the difference is very slight.

    Might be worth having a look at this thread for a discussion of the posture with regard to double-weightedness, as Niall Keane makes some interesting points:

    http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111961

    As far as I am aware, the 'ward off' posture is a name used in some versions of the Yang style. We don't use that name in the Wu style, and I can't see a direct equivalent. As far as I can see, it uses the archery stance, so the weight should be supported by the front leg and the back leg should be 'empty'.
     
  8. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    the equivalent movement/ posture is in the sequence of grasp birds tail.

    From about 1.03 - 1.10 in this clip, you see the right arm/ hand come up & out, circling toward the right.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVB_wkKpfe4"]wu style taichi (2007) - YouTube[/ame]

    This is the older style of doing it, and it's still around in quite a lot of forms other than Wu Chien Chuans. The technique aspect here is one of deflecting/ bridging.
    The newer Yang style brings more of an expanding quality to it and less of a turning/ deflecting one and the rear hand does cai (pulling).
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2013
  9. Johnno

    Johnno Valued Member

    Thanks for that.

    We just call the whole movement 'Grasping Bird's Tail', we don't break it down any further than that. (We don't do the form exactly like the chap in the video did it, but it was close enough to be recognsable as being Wu style. Wish he'd done a bit more of the form because I found it quite interesting to watch!)
     

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