When should you throw the first punch?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Hazmatac, Jun 5, 2014.

  1. Hazmatac

    Hazmatac Valued Member

    Good point. I am not an expert on this, but say a dog is in a cage and is snarling, and barking loudly AT you, making eye strong eye contact like they are establishing territory, it is likely that if you invade his space that he will bite. Or if a dog is running at you there is a possibility.

    Also with cats, if they stiffen up, put their ears back, start to growl or hiss and essentially have a vibe of "don't mess with me," they can be likely to bite. They can also try to make themselves bigger by arching their back. Also, a look of anger on their face, displaying their fangs.

    You bring up a good point, especially because (I am pretty sure, at least generally speaking) anatomically one of the only differences between a human brain and animal brains are going to be the bigger neocortex, and fighting is going to be more encoded in the more primitive brains of the human (reptilian and possibly mammilian brain) and not so much the neocortex. If that is the case, displays that one is about to attack can be very similar, and I am pretty sure it is the case.

    Looking at the previous examples, this could include shouting, making yourself look bigger, posturing, stiffening up as if ready to attack or defend, getting loud, getting more emotional as opposed to level headed...

    One thing I have noticed in youtube videos of people who are about to sucker punch someone is that they seem to have a lull in the conversation, stiffen up and have some kind of a lull in the conversation. They seem to go into their heads a bit as if they are thinking about their next move... In one case this was not the case but this guy had a fake smile, acting "too nice" in putting on some sort of superficial charm, and then struck the other guy (but he was planning on doing this beforehand).

    I don't think these signals are a 100 percent indicator that you will be attacked, but they can be helpful to watch out for.
  2. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

  3. 19thlohan

    19thlohan Beast and the Broadsword

    When they other guys not looking!
  4. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    In this old Japanese movie, the guy had a very interested fighting style (at 24.30 and 39.15). He would

    - drop his sword lower and lower,
    - bent his head down and down,
    - move back one step after another,

    when his opponent thought that he was weak and attacked, he would kill his opponent right at that moment.

    Last edited: Jun 12, 2014
  5. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    A barking dog is not one that will always "attack". But hissing cat will scratch...Bruce Lee had the idea
  6. iaw-maidstone

    iaw-maidstone Valued Member

    Probably similar to the 'fence' idea, we train the concept of a main fighting distance, it is actually a range, just outside my maximum reach to just in front of my chest. We learn when we can reach with an attack, when we can't, what footwork is needed etc. If someone closes this range I will attack them or attack their attack. If they remain outside this area, I make a choice to attack them or not and I would then need to close the range. (this is for unarmed, weapons need adjustment to range, but we also train this)
  7. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    If I am speaking to someone and an argument or just disagreement happens to come about then I would say that what I was always taught was that if one seems not to want to back off when you attempt to be calm then once he gets within my jab range. I will not allow a person to get close to be to land a sucker punch of any sort. If you have stepped forward to me and are in my personal space or my "range" then you're likely to get hit. I think it's fair enough to allow a person to say what they want when they are away from me. When they approach IMO they are escalating the situation way to much for my comfort.
  8. matveimediaarts

    matveimediaarts Underappreciated genius

    +1 Much more experienced people than I (10th dan in karate) have always advised me to use tai sabaki (and the appropriate counter strike if appropriate) when in that sort of situation.
  9. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    Culture/enthnic behaviour can play into things. With some people, if they look away - eyes sharply to the side, avoiding eye contact - get ready as they are about to slam your face.

    With others, looking away/avoiding eye contact is a sign of respect or they are attempting to de-escalate if you read the cues and allow them face-saving measures ( I think a good part of the time, these sorts of conflicts are going to happen in group situations - their group and you've to expect they'll need to have the 'last word' to maintain social status. That 'last word' bit can take on different things, again, depending on the culture. )

    So I've heard :)
  10. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    I'm still very guilty of the eye thing. This is my own fault for all of the fear and anxiety I have suffered through for most of my life. I was a scared little boy. Parents always either fighting, or close to it because of them splitting up. Suicide attempts, violent outburst, a lot of yelling (this all by my parents not me), and other things that don't need to be brought up over and over, but the point is that from early childhood I was not able to relax and just be calm. I admire those who can be. I try very hard to work on this and just approach things that I fear in the sense of anxiety, but when it comes to some kid that is eyeballing me to no end, even when I look away... man, sometimes they just keep staring and I just cannot let someone feel like they have won. I'm ok with getting hit in an altercation, I'm not ok with people feeling like they can stare at me like some sort of badass. I just don't like it and hate the fact that I have to tolerate it for the sake of my Wife and son, but I do want to be around for him as long as I can too.

    It's also not as simple as having an issue with someone, having a fight one on one and that's the end of it... otherwise I don't think we'd honestly have so much violence in the world. I guess this is where actual combat organizations help a lot of poor and/or inner city kids or adults involved in inner city violence.
  11. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    Go live in China for a couple of years; you'll become so used to being stared at you will actually miss it when you return home! lol.

    But I think its changed in recent years they don't stare at the gwai lo quite as much as they used to.

    No, I know you're meaning here. I don't think anyone likes being zero'd but out of all of the possible ways that someone can embark upon in an attempt to make one uncomfortable, staring is probably one of the least confrontational/easier to avoid. I don't know this for fact, but I'd wager its also the one that would be hardest reasons to defend should the staring lead to an escalation of events where things get out of hand quickly and there are legal ramifications to face later on.

    Looney as it may sound, staying in foreign ( India, PRC, etc ) countries where rude staring (not to be mistaken for hostile, read curious) for a couple of months might be considered as a form of immersion therapy for people who, for whatever reasons, have to live in locales where they are experiencing hostile staring and they grew up in a culture where politeness was really hammered into them at a young age.

    Better than one look away from loosing it all, ya know.

    Now watch me go out today and get stared at by every white southern cracker I encounter :)
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2014
  12. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    You mean like people from here;

  13. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    That's funny but it should read "The Huuuummiddd Cracker", lol. Nothing dry down here, nothing.
  14. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    The jokes are "dry' :D
  15. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    I've yet to hear one of 'em tell a joke yet.
    Most of what I've encountered is along the lines of...


    But perhaps this is considered humorous in these parts, then?
  16. Bobby Gee

    Bobby Gee Valued Member

    I don't think about it.
    If he comes at me- punch him. If he tell me he's going to do something- punch him.
  17. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Depends if he is "in your space/face"
  18. hippocampus

    hippocampus New Member

    keep a safe distance drom other guy. İf he tries to get closer, tell him not to get closer and warn him, if again, punch.
  19. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    And if distance is not an option...?
  20. matveimediaarts

    matveimediaarts Underappreciated genius

    Mae tae? Gyaku tsuki? :confused:

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