Hi.. I live in Saint Louis, Missouri. Was just wondering what was the best way to find out all of the FMA places around me. I am willing to travel for an hour and a half in any direction just to recieve great training! With so much terminology like "escrima", "arnis" "garimot", "kali", "stick-fighting", "filipino martial arts", and the other various hundreds of names some of these groups are under, I just have no idea where to start.
Start with the big four terms: eskrima (with a 'k' is probably going to yield more results), arnis, kali, and 'filipino martial arts.' That's probably going to turn up most of the places. More specialized terms are less likely to yield hits themselves and will probably occur under one of the umbrella terms above. (EG, any Pekiti Tirsia school would probably turn up under the 'kali' umbrella.) You could also try searching the websites of various well-known teachers. Check the websites for Guro Dan Inosanto, for instance. And the Sayoc Kali website. And the Modern Arnis organizations. Etc. Many organizations and teachers have listings of qualified teachers within their system. Seems to me that there's also a poster right here on our FMA forum from St. Louis. Tim STL perhaps? Stuart
Yep, remembered right. Tim_stl (which probably stands for St. Louis now that I'm thinking about it) is right in your neck of the woods. And he's an FMA guy. Bet he'd be able to point you in the right direction.
So, I guess, the next question would be... how to tell a FMA McDojo apart from the real thing? The type of sparring I've seen online of FMA really isnt indicative at all to the average beginner of someone skill-ful. The former just look like simple demos down in slow-time, and the latter-- although clearly not a demo nor done in any speed other than live-- just seems like a bunch of guys whacking each other: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcqw-D5lun0"]YouTube - Modern Mano Mano Finland[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7CtBWhrVAE&feature=related"]YouTube - Eskrima Fight[/ame] but THIS to me, however is obvious that this man is skill-ful: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQltqe2FFcE"]YouTube - Kombatan Arnis - Grand Master Ernesto G Presas Jnr[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OXa0x4d0tk"]YouTube - Kombatan, Ernesto A. Presas. & Black Eagle Escrima from Island of Cebu Philippines[/ame] I'm guessing the latter link is of his father...
thanks stuart and oosh. living_symbiote, it seems that you've been asking this question for almost four years on this forum now. the only way to get your answer about local groups is to get out there and train with them. here's a list of fma groups in st. louis: http://fma-katipunan.com/training.html there are others that are underground and don't want to advertise, and others across the river in illinois. virtually any of them can point you to the others. tim
Hey Embra, I wish I could be more help. But, quite honestly, I know comparatively little about Modern Arnis. I train with a Modern Arnis group, it's true. But my own background in Doce Pares and Inosanto Kali has meant, for the most part, that I've just been doing a sort of generic Filipino martial arts curriculum. Modern Arnis may differ in its use of various terminology, certain sinawali patterns, etc. And there are drills and forms (anyos in MA terminology) that are distinctive. I'm thinking of what they call "tapi tapi" (though it's completely different from what I'm used to calling "tapi tapi" in DP). But, honestly, I'm not well enough versed to do anything more than cut and paste someone else's assessment of the differences. I'm not even certain which branch this group most closely correlates with; the teacher was a student of Samuel "Bambit" Dulay. Sorry Embra. Stuart
I understand. but no one has ever told me what to look for in a gym. If I were to go off of common sense, I would ignore the ones whom look like the first two links up above, and would look for one that would show its practicioners to keep their distance. But am not sure whether or not this is the right criteria for judging this art. Identifying a Mcdojo in a weapons-based environment isnt as easy as it is a martial art that primarily strikes. I would imagine sparring would be the tell-tale sign of a gym being good-- but I doubt I'll see any of that because FMA employs weapons. and there is no way you can practice live resistance sparring and safety at the same time with weapons. this is what makes this TMA so difficult to spot a good gym.
You seem to have already made your mind up on what an FMA McDojo is by comparing the video clips yet you could not be further from the truth. The clips show different interpretations and systems in the FMA and the first clip is related to clips 3 & 4 in that they are associated to the same system in one fashion or another. The second clip is sport. Not the art. But just because someone participates in the sport does not mean they are not well versed in the art. The only way you can see if it is a McDojo is to go along and see for yourself. A 2 yer contract and promise of a certain grade in a certain time are clues. As for sparring safely with weapons on a resisting opponent. Well the sport is ideal for that. Best regards Pat
as tim said, just visit and see/feel what each group do. i have seen and practiced a little bit with 3 out of the five styles listed in the st. louis metro area and i would say, you will never go wrong with those groups. of course it will boil down to what you'll like best.
Well, you linked to one example of FMA sparring. That looked like the WEKAF (World Eskrima Kali Arnis Federation) sparring format, characterized by the vests, grill-style helmet, and lacrosse gloves. There are others. Just bear in mind that any form of sparring is an abstraction. As is true of any form of training at all. You can try to minimize the level of abstraction, but at the end of the day, sparring is (mercifully) different from actually being involved in a genuine weapon-based fight. Some groups will take a broader view than others on sparring. You'll get groups that allow kicking, takedowns, etc. Or groups where mixed weapon matches (e.g., [training] knife versus stick) are allowed. Etc. It's up to you to determine which groups are using training methods that feel viable to you. Not being a weapons expert, there may be things that don't make sense to you. But I think there's a great deal that can be handled simply by trusting your critical thinking skills. If it were me, I'd be cautious about an overreliance on rehearsed drills. Not that they don't have their place. But sumbrada (for instance) isn't the goal. Your goal isn't to perform sumbrada well. It's to internalize the skills and attributes that are (hopefully) encapsulated within sumbrada. If there's not some effort to take those skills and attributes and test them outside of the prescribed drill, I'd be concerned. I personally don't care for forms much (sayaw or anyo, depending on the group). Some groups use them. Others don't. I've been in both for many years. And I'm not a fan. That's just me. But if you share that criterion, that's something else to keep an eye on. You may also want to look for an emphasis (or deemphasis) on the cultural dimensions of FMA. One of the things I like about the current group is that there's a big emphasis on the culture behind the fighting. I find that interesting. You may prefer to approach FMA as a skillset, devoid of cultural trappings. And I think the technical approach is more than sound enough to make that a valid decision. But, first and foremost, I think you want to rely on a network. The FMA community is still small enough that word of mouth goes a long way. Knowing the teachers' names and a bit about their lineage will turn up a lot of information that should help your decisionmaking process. Stuart
