What throws does Hapkido favor in the clinch? Do you guys study the clinch?

not sure if its already been pointed out that royce has a combat hapkido connection.... sure thomas or another devotee of KP will come around and inform us more... my guess is the techniques are not carried forward from jujutsu roots... rather, that the connection is more modern with it's roots firmly planted in significant cross-training

 

There was mention of people not wanting contact in the mix of learning Self Defense.
They just had a mention on the news Today of Public Schools in the parts of the US Banning Sports like Flag Football,Dodge Ball and TAG,all because they involved TOO MUCH CONTACT,LOL.
(Imagine what the future of Martial arts and Self Defense will be for that age group down the road?)

Just Read The Editorial of the June 08 Black Belt Magazine,they say their Research shows that Reality based Self Defense arts are the Hottest Topic in the Martial Arts Field at the Time.

Amazing, as to me Reality Based Arts are Just a Return to the Way All Martial arts Used to be taught 30-40 years ago,as Pure Self Defense ,with a minor in sport application.
(Now it seems to be reversed for the most part,sport with a minor in Self Defense)

There is nothing New in the Reality Based World that has not been in Traditional martial arts before,except the lack of uniforms.

Reality based Training Involves Contact and a No Holds ,No Rules Approach to Self Defense that has been missing for 20+ years in most cases.

I am surprised that many seeking this type of training bypass arts like Hapkido.
(though arts and formality are the New No ,No's apparently)
But
The Tools are there,they are found in Hapkido.
Many,Not all, of the Reality Based Arts I have seen are Jujitsu based to a large degree.

Perhaps a return to the way Martial Arts used to be taught and the enlightenment of people to what hapkido is about will bring the circle and spotlight back to Traditional arts as Self Defense usable over only seen as sport applicable.

 

Royce had been,(don't know if he still does),training in Muay Thai,Boxing and was learning and employing Hapkido for his stand up clinch work.
He was Training with an instructor called Nono of Nono Hapkido/Karate in California.
Nono is a Former French Foreign Legionaire.

Royce saw the need for a more complete approach to MMA and Does/Did various cross training along with his GBJJ.

 

Jim,

I agree with most of what you said, however I started Bjj because I found that from personal expirience when I grappled a guy with a few years of grappling they could win using strictly sport tactics.

They can indeed tie you up and all our so called street moves don't work.

Even today with almost 5 years in grappling I roll with a Bjj black belt who allows me to use small joint stuff, bitting goes out the window becuase he carefull and he can tie you up and all that is done with sport tactics. Moreover it's not hard for the Bjj people to throw in strikes and elbow, knees as well anytime they want to!

I feel the only real weakness is not one on one or sport, but in stand up or multiple people or weapons.

 

How often are you able to land small joint locks on him?

 

Nothings impossible but one guy will just let go but he never lost his position or maybe he'll cause me more pain the he gets.

Remember in a fight these type of guys will take a broken finger to break your elbow.

Against people who aren't that bent on hurting you or are not used to pain they might give up after a finger lock, but if you watch some tough Bjj matches some of them will not tap even if they get something broken it happened to Royce, Renzo, Jacare, etc...

My suggestion anytime you're not sure is go to a school talk to the instr. and tell them you're looking for some training and street tactics and you'd like to
try some friendly matches with a brown or black belt.

Just be humble and see for yourself.

 

Yes I agree,many MMA/BJJ people can tie us up in sport,that is their field.

The advocates of MMA and BJJ for example say they would NEVER go to the ground in the street,Yet THEY DO.

When I hear some one say they tie up and get pinned,it is on the ground and I ask How did both parties get there?

Luckily ,or hopefully,it will probably be a rare event to get attacked/mugged on the street by a Trained Ground Grappler.
(I do wonder though why such admiration is given to MMA and BJJ players today,when Wrestling and Boxing had been a main event trained in many high school gyms across America in the 50's to the 80's and yet it was never really seen in street encounters to any degree)

I am not taking anything away from any group,I just question the application of the Tools for Self Defense on the Street.

I have to admit I am one of those people who will take a break to get something more.
an example:
I took a broken finger ,while applying a seated rear choke just to put my friend to sleep while playing around,lol.
(it all comes down to what you are willing to do and take when it is on the line)

Again nothing against anyones training and or cross training,these are just my views on tool applications for the Street.

 

...devotee of KP? What's that? "Kitchen Patrol"? I sure did a lot of that in the Army!!!!

Otherwise, your comments about the 'connection being modern' is pretty true and cross training is a big component of Combat Hapkido training and development.

 

spelling's not my strong suit and I was unsure how to spell pelligrino and
too lazy to go check it out online... his first name is kurt right??

 

No harm done - I enjoyed busting on you anyway.

I think Kurt Pellegrino is a young MMA fighter who likes to die his hair. http://kurtpellegrino.com/

He's no relation to GM John Pellegrini, head of the ICHF (www.ichf.com) as far as I know.

 

LOL. I wish I could spend a day in your world JimH. Can't we make it happen?

 

Let it go JimH. Nothing good will ever come of this approach.

 

Wow MasL,
Two Posts in a Row!

What Great contributions to the thread they are.

Thanks for your Overwhelming Knowledge and Participation.

As Always I love your input on Application in the Real World.
LOL

What was your input again on Throws in a Clinch?
(I seemed to Miss it?)

What is your opinion of why Royce studied Hapkido and Muay Thaio from Nono?

What is your opinion of GBJJ/BJJ/MMA as sport and their effectiveness as a sport trained art on the street?

I ,and others here ,await your Responses as I am sure they will be of some Length,Thought and Informative Value.

If you would like to meet me let me know when next you are in the NY area.
I am easy to Find.
(you can even have a Free Lesson)
I am sure Marvin ,and others in the area from that other Forum, would be Happy to Meet you as well.LOL

 

At my club (sometime before I joined) it happened. A red belt went for a finger-spear to the throat against a bbelt (who was also being sneaked up on from behind) so he grabbed his hand and did what we call a 'twig break' (also known as 'Nikyo' in Aikido.)

Unfortunately he also nudged the arm with his and ended up breaking some ligaments in the elbow.

The guy trained again after he healed and now holds a Blackbelt. His elbow still has funny bump on it, though.