What I've figured out recently

Just to liven things up around here, I thought I'd post a thread that we could all post stuff we've figured out in WMA. Whether it's something that you knew intellectually, but didn't click until some magical moment, or something novel to you.

For me, my recent revelation is just how everything in German longsword is so interrelated. The windings, the guards, and the thrusts just seem to be variations on a theme to me... sublte variations on the various stances and techniques that reveal a versatile "alphabet" that can defeat your opponent.

Anyone else?

-Mark

 

Langenschwert - nicely put

For me, knowing my weapon and what I can do with it and it can do through me has given me greater flow and versatility. Knowing one's weapon involves practice, sparring, caring for them as well as immersing yourself into the character of the weapon. I may sound like a nutter but there is nothing like having that familiar friend (whatever your weapon of choice may be) in your hands, like a natural extension of your body.

I just keep working to combine my weapons and empty hands MA (JJJ) seamlessly now.

 

Hey, thanks. Here's a quote for you about one's weapon and skill therewith being a friend (emphasis mine):

Sometimes I catch myself cradling my sword/waster on the bus, even through the carry bag. I know how you feel.

That's the key. Hanko Dobringer said "all swordsmanship comes from wrestling", back in 1389, and I think he's right. Too bad I can't wrestle worth a damn, but I'll get there.

Best regards,

-Mark

 

The big revelation that i had about WMA, many years ago, was that people in the western world fought and killed each other too. Then i realized that this was important, and they probably had their own systems and ways to do things like asian peoples did, they were not just bashing each other's plate armour mindlessly .

 

Langenschwert - I just have a big grin on my face from reading your post and my heart feels all warm and fuzz. I just love talking to weapons enthusiasts.

Origami (Nut ) - good point, something that can be forgotten too easily.

 

You have to learn something first in order to forget it! Most people never bother to connect the dots - i don't blame them though, Hollywood is to blame!

 

It can be hard to find people to geek out with about weapons. It drove my former S.O. to distraction! That's probably one of the reasons we split, actually. Good thing most of my friends are weapon geeks, too, or I'd probably go nuts. So there's another thing I learned about WMA... most women find dating a dedicated swordsman frustrating in the extreme! When I got my first sharp sword, photgraphed here, at the bottom of the page, I joked that I didn't know whether to sleep in bed with the GF, or on the couch with the sword. She didn't think it was that funny. Well, OK, maybe she did. I think my weapons-obsession drives my co-workers to boredom sometimes, too. Oh well, I can live with it... they haven't gotten me fired yet!

Best regards,

-Mark

 

Personally, I have two kids, a job and too many other irons in the fire to be able to consentrate sufficiantly on the actual training-bit to make any great progresses. I allmost posted yesterday, but realized that it's actually a long time since I really had a light'bulb above my head :cry:

I think the last real light bulb, was during dagger-training (the stuff I'm probably best at), when I "decoded" fiores daggersystem (At least that was the impression at the time ). I realized that there are 3 basic defencive responses to any attack, based on the strength and resolve of the attacker; the "weak" respons, the "strong" response and the response to a hessitating opponent. The lightbulb allso included the realization that this consept is alfa and omega for any defenses that is based on beeing in contact with the opponent.

It's allso very insightful to join other Fiore-practitioners' interpretations.

 

Here's some stuff I've been thinking about:

Shifting the weight and levering the sword, which I've been trying to clean up lately: When strking a zornhau for example (or fendente mandritto for the Italians), I start by levering the pommel, and then shifting the weight forward by bending the front leg, and pushing the hands forward while doing the step. Sometimes it flows perfectly, sometimes not. I find concentrating on the weight shift when doing a retreating step really focuses my balance and keeps me more grounded in striking. Am I off base here? How does everyone else think of the basics?

-Mark

 

Provided that I understand you correctly; -reversing things -in this case stepping backwards-which BTW not nessecarily is to reverse -is something I do to improve my balance. In my experience, keeping shoulderwith while stepping backwards is a bit harder than doing it forewards. I allso have good help in doing stuff with the eyes closed; it helps me focusing more on the balance (the eyes are a tool for keeping balance, and depriving the brain of this correction-option forces it to place more focus on body mechanics) Guy Winsor used standing on one foot while eyes closed as part of the warm-up before a session I attended that he held at a Nordic WMA-seminar in Malmö, Sweden riecently.
I still love doing basics, for instance stepping, as it's something I can do while walking in the City, or manouvering around in my house

 

Yeah, he has that exercise in his longsword book. I do it every day. That's when I really started thinking about my balance in detail.

-Mark

 

Another thing that 'clicked' to me with weapons is to always put pressure on my opponent even in defence or in 'retreat' (i.e. moving backwards). I have learnt to naturally press forward, test and put pressure on my opponent no matter the situation.

I'm no weapons expert but this aspect of my weapons work nicely frustrates my kobudo partners. Its like an automatic switch that went off and its less a case of me forcing my will through my weapon (which I previously did).

It helps us train with resistance and respect what a weapon is capable of.

 

Yes, that is the key to staying alive in a sword fight. You must press your opponent at all times. Defending without having a simultaneous or nearly simultaneous attack is suicide. Hence the focus in the German tradition on the word "Indes", or Immediately. One of my favourite quotes is from Hanko Dobringer: "No man can defend without danger", or something like that. Here's a quote from the Goliath manuscript:

Thus take full to hand the word Immediately, if he is soft or hard and when you have felt this then you must now work against the soft and against the hard at the sword. Thus when both are not one thing, the word Immediately is foremost of all elements and use this thus: Immediately doubles, Immediately transforms, Immediately changes through, Immediately charges through, Immediately gains the slice, Immediately gains the grapple, Immediately takes the sword, Immediately does what your heart desires, Immediately is a sharp word that cuts all masters of the sword, the word is not ingrained without knowing that this is the key to the art.

When retreating, it's always a good idea to throw a cut in there to give one's opponent something to think about, and ideally, something for him to walk right into.

Best regards,

-Mark

 

Langenschwert - your text references are always great 'Immediately' takes on a new meaning for me now.

So how do you feel you would describe a sword master's style? Would the word 'defensive' even come into it? I just find that weapons are different to empty hands (personally) as the extension allows you to press your opponent much harder and poses a greater threat more of the time than just an empty hands encounter.

 

Fighting "defensivly" is a good way to get killed. If you rely on defensive actions and wait to strike you only have to mess up once and its over. However, if you defend while attacking evena twarted offensive wont get you killed but may still allow you to plce pressure and kill.
I think the same applies to empty handed stuff. Dont wait for someone to make the attack, smother it with your own or make yours before they can.

 

This is one of the areas where the itailan and german tradition seems to differ. The germans are very offensive (though polite ), focusing on doing meisterhaus (masterstrokes) -that both covers the lines and presents an attack, whereas some interpret Fiore to be very focused on first parrying, then attacking. (Some claims that Fiore allways does a "coverta"; a cover, before striking, but this could just as well be that Fiore and the Germans describes the same thing (cover and attack) with different words.) Note that I'm not saying that fiore fights defensively, but he seems to react rather than act on the pictures in the manuals. Now IMHO, it seems to me that Fiore "baits" the opponent; sticks a body part out to lure the opponent into attacking a predictable spot. When the opponent goes for the ruse; fiore acts very offensively, by counterattacking.

This potential controverse have lead some to conclude that Fiore fights passively whereas the germans fights offensively. I have the impression that most of you fight "german". Well, I fight "italian"; it could be interresting to see who would win

 

Glad you like it.

Well, I'm not really qualified to say what a master's style would be, but nonetheless, here's my take on it, worth exactly what you paid for it:

I'll start off with some quotes from good ol' uncle Siggy (Sigmung Ringeck):

So the style of a master will be unrelentingly agressive, even in defence. His attacks will be done with intent and resolve, moving his body behind his sword in the strike so as to present a threat before presenting a target. He will attack first, thereby forcing the opponent to react to him. Should he be attacked first, he will counterattack so that an attack is in the defence, preferably simultaneously, closing the line of the incoming attack and striking back at the same time. In any case, the counterattack comes very quickly... as quickly as the master can perceive what's going on in the bind, and thereby overwhelm his opponent. Hopefully, the opponent is dead before he realizes what he did wrong.

Does that help?

Best regards,

-Mark

 

Who so ever has a greater grasp of their system will win

And an interesting thing is most of the plays involving a meisterhau are done to react to something your opponent has done, but the intent is to regain the offesive momentum and control of the fight.

 

Well, a primary purpose of the meisterhauen is to break the guard your opponent is standing in. That's pure agression right there. Combine that with all the advice in the manuals to get the first strike if at all possible, and it seems to me that mostly you'll end up using them offensively, rather than reactively. Besides, when getting into a bind from two zornhauen, it doesn't really matter whether you've struck first or second as far as the technique used is concerned. You'll have to be extra snappy if you've struck second is all.

-Mark

 

........*thinks*....I agree I think I got the techniques mixed up with the plays that they are shown in. Some of the plays are examples of regaining the Vor from the Nach.