I've been thinking about this tonight and I'd like your opinion. I'll try to make it someone coherent. Basically what is modern JuJutsu and how would you define it? I'm not talking about Koryu here but your more common gendai style. And these are the styles that often get accused of being not actually JuJutsu but simply something like Karate, Judo and maybe a bit of Aikido blended together. But for the sake of argument if someone did learn and blend all those together to get something that looked pretty much like gendai JuJutsu with traced lineage, what really is the difference? And does it matter? To bring a personal slant to things I mostly came to think of this as a result of my cross training. I'm primarily Japanese JuJutsu but have trained in Judo and more recently BJJ as well as a bunch of random seminars over the years. The level of overlap between all these means I cannot separate the application of what I learn in each class and yes sometimes I also notice it coming through when teaching or demonstrating. So I suppose I'm also asking when does something become not JuJutsu?
At a base level I don't care what something is if it is effective and teaches someone how to fight or defend themselves (if that is the aim). Which a blend of Judo, Karate and Aikido could easily do. The problem arises I think because there are so many styles of jujutsu that are marketed or promoted as beng authentic JJJ when they are nothing of the sort. Trying to "out-japanese" authentic JJJ or Koryu arts when they can only really be traced back to some bloke called Bob from Oldham (I made that up).
Righty as ever you pose a great question.. and the answer is ......so subjective you will not get a simple answer. Throws, strikes, kicks, chokes, locks...... learnt in Japanese. ?... misty lineage ...... Gendai jujitsu / jujitsu I await the views of the senior management ... Smurf
According to my Sensei ..I am just a beginner. He j u st turned 70 and brought his judo licence to the dinner... It pre dates my being born ....and thats his shodan .... His lineage goes back to the kodakan ... So I am learning japanese judo ....with western Jujitsu ...because I cannot link my jujitsu lineage to Japan ....I have traned in the USA , Ireland and Britain wiyh varying organisations and people. I am sure there is linkage to Japan in all of them ...but who knows and to be honest I dont really care. What I do works for me , my students and Sensei...I consider it jujitsu as that is what it is.... Smurf
Well compared to me you probably are. Speaking of Judo, I once had the opportunity to see two experienced Judoka train their Goshin Jutsu no Kata. Looked pretty JuJutsu-ish to me despite being an official Judo kata. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9SfzhSDjBw"]Judo - Goshin Jutsu no Kata Demonstration - Tokyo Budokan Reopening Events - YouTube[/ame]
Works for me Sensei! I agree with Sensei John when he says Judo is "fighting jujitsu" If you see him throwing on the mats you would never think he was 30years shy of a century. Inspiration to us all. If it works, that is the most important factor in my eyes, or I would still be studying a Koryu art. Cheers Dan93
Yeah because all koryu are just dead museum pieces. What's modern jujutsu? Simple for me, does it have a link to a legitimate system be it another gendai one or koryu. By that I mean solid connections and not having Sensei Dave having attending three lessons and two seminars of whatever the system is supposed to be based on. Another factor for me is that it has to be cohesive, there's no point in throwing bits and bobs together and hoping they fit. Make sure your striking, ukemi and weapons work all integrate correctly and make sure your training methodology reflects your purposes. Beyond that it's just separated into Western or Japanese systems, from what I've seen each having identifying characteristics.
How do you know your current training works. Are you saying all koryu don't work ? Also how do you know that?
Jujutsu as a word has lost its meaning. It only matters if its making claims it can't support. Which most modern jujitsu schools do. My pet hate is jujitsu places teaching submission grappling, when its quite clear they'vejust copied something off YouTube.
Hi Fusen, When you say my current training I assume you mean my Jujitsu training, through Randori/Newaza althrough not nearly as much as I would normally like, re-action circles ect. I get what you are getting at as alot of JJJ do not do alot of randori ect. Last instance in which I had to defend myself against a bigger assailant my training worked just fine, but I am always looking to improve/breakdown and test my training within a dojo setting. I did not say that all Koryu is worthless in a SD perspective, I have only studied one Koryu and not for a huge amount of time as it was not for me due to the amount of kata based training. Isn't the main purpose of a Koryu to preserve the techniques regardless of making them work for todays world, I would not need specific techniques/knowledge of getting to the weak points in feudal japanese armour where modern systems are at least attempting to fit their techniques to modern usage. I respect the History and Cultural aspect and enjoyed it but it was dead training IMHO. Thanks Dan93
Thanks for the reply Dan, interesting points, if I may ask, if you didn't like Kata training, but you don't do much randori training now, what is it you do in your JJ training? Do you think your JJ training now, teaches appropriate SD? If you could change anything about it, what would that be?
Hi Fusen, No worries, work alot on throws and locks, both from a Judo perspective i.e. the grab and from a more SD orientated scenario, i.e. defending from strikes/holds into throw/lock and disengage, Uchi komi, re-action drills ect. different from the Koryu stuff I learnt where even stepping and turning was very formulated. Only thing I might change would be more resistance training i.e. randori/isolation sparring ect, planning on popping down to try a DART in the new year as well, done bulletman but interested to test myself further and see what the differences are.
So you mean you do drilling and sparring, but the actual mechanics of which aren't preprescribed, But all in a self defence context? Do practice standing joint locks? How high percentage do you find them in your SD randori
Fusen. we train standing locks with transitions to atemi or throws.... As to its functionality in modern life....it has stood up to 20 years of day to day law enforcement.... I try to encourage the beginners to strike and disengage safely gradually introducing locks and more subtle techniques. I have never looked at pecentages of strikes versus locks versus throws...maybe I will one day.. I find that as students progress they utilise their gross motor skills less and less ......but always seem to have them as a reliable fall back... The mid range students at the moment are using throws as their main techniques , the seniir students are experimenting with combinations of both. Ground work is mainly judo based and I admit to not following the rules on the ground as I encourage striking, knees, elbows , pinching and gouging as viable tactical options to enabke a disengage. The randori is functional but not sport orientated. Get your throw in and a strike disengage looking for other threats.. hopefully this helps a bit.. Smurf
Thanks Alansmurf - Quick question, have you changed how and what you train over those 20 years, or do you stick to what you have been taught.
Good question. ?. Honestly ....it changes ...life experiences and student experiences do ammend things some slightly some majorly .. I do try to stick to my roots ...but life in the real world has changed since I started studying 27 years ago ...and I am a realist I wont teach or practice the impractical ...or at least I try not to.... Smurf
Cheers Bud, I always think If Non Classical JiuJitsu Is SD, it should change with the times and experience, given that its not a museum piece, whilst the functional basics obviously wont change that much, newer training methods, and threats will obviously change the actual practice.
