What is Kuk Sool (FAQ's)?

Discussion in 'Kuk Sool' started by Wolf, May 8, 2006.

  1. Pugil

    Pugil Seeker of truth

    There's a world of difference between it being military taught (i.e. as an official part of military personnel's training), and it being taught to military personnel who chose to sign up to train in their own free time!
  2. SsangKall

    SsangKall Valued Member

    this is what makes you unique, mr simms; you have no intent to mix your teaching up with anything. this is my undersranding of your motives for fraternizing with those outside your kwan. this is an important distinction, because most crosstrainers wish to supplement something they may be taught later or not at all. in my case, i took a class of aikido, a class of judo, and a class of gracie jujitsu... but i wasnt the guy who came back and started prodding master yang with questions. i simply learned more about momentum, resistance, grappling.
  3. Pugil

    Pugil Seeker of truth

    From just one class in each? Wow! I would need to spend at least six months to even begin to understand the subtleties and nuances. All power to you SK!
  4. Bruce W Sims

    Bruce W Sims Banned Banned

    Exactly, but I think the distinction between what one does in pursuit of one's own quest and what one does as a member of an organization are constantly being confused. My own teacher taught that it was almost a responsibility to take the skeleton he taught and seek to flesh it out according to our goals and intentions. Now....when we were in a class or seminar we were expected to do things totally in his fashion---no exceptions. But thats a very different thing.

    Its like PUGIL indicated about the difference between teaching a MA as part of a military curriculum and teaching military people who come to learn on their own. Two very different things that are constantly being blurred.

    Best Wishes,

  5. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    Ooh! Let me offer some actual ON-TOPIC info...

    While this contribution by Xanth (back in post #43) directs you to the WKSA testing requirements,
    there is NO translation of what all those requirements are.

    Therefore, my choice is the same info presented along with a translation of the various items required for the different levels on the syllabus. CLICK HERE or CLICK HERE
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2011
  6. elliotmurphy

    elliotmurphy Valued Member

    Haha....I didn't realize he had a website, I am in one of those group fotos in the back row, im the tallest one and you can barely see me, lol.
  7. Xanth

    Xanth Valued Member

    Doesn't part of the testing fee go towards bringing out KSN and his gang of masters to test you ? (I really don't know who pays for these trips). I'd assume our testing goes into this. I personally enjoy the fact that Kuk Sa Nim is present for each and every black belt promotion. Yes, you have to buy a uniform (gold fringe, or instructors are $120), yes you have to buy your own frame, and yes you have to embroider your own name on the belt if you wish...but at least for ME, I got my $350 worth. I hold a dahn certificate with a reputable group that is good around the world in more schools that I can ever want to visit. I have the pride of knowing that my martial art abilities were deemed to be a high enough level to join an elite group of dahn holders in the art I devote myself to.
  8. elliotmurphy

    elliotmurphy Valued Member

    How much is the ecky thump membership? Just joking, lol
  9. Xanth

    Xanth Valued Member

    I think if you supply enough Blood Sausage, you get in free!
  10. SsangKall

    SsangKall Valued Member

    it was two semesters! 'class' refers to university class
  11. Happy Feet Cotton Tail

    Happy Feet Cotton Tail Valued Member

    Some questions for the! FAQ

    How much pressure testing is given to Kuk sool won students when learning techniques?

    What is the Kuk Sool Wons attitude to sparring? How should it be conducted, how frequently?

    Is conditioning considered an important part of the KSW syllabus?

    How much does the teaching style vary from one instructor to another?
  12. Obewan

    Obewan "Hillbilly Jedi"

    Well G I think your asking questions in which to compare KSW training with, I'm assuming, a MMA style. I think that comparing KSW to MMA is "apples and oranges" But I'll give you my take on it hopefully you'll better understand how we train and the benefits of the methods. Please keep an open mind as it may vary considerably to what your use to.

    I don't know what you mean about "pressure testing". I can tell you how we practice our techniques. Beginning level students learn "motor motion" which means basically memorization. Intermediate level students learn control. What I mean by control is that you would learn how to move with your partner with balance, speed, and power. Advanced students would learn proper joint angle and how to take the lock to a point that if anymore force was applied it would damage the joint. The students get to feel what it's like to have joint locks applied to them, and what it feels like to apply them to others. This is not to mimic a fight or self defense. The benefits that the student should be concentrating on are: Mental training, balance, muscle memory, timing, speed, strengthening the joints and connective tissue, and conditioning the body to take the impact of an attack.

    I think the attitude toward sparring is more toward individual taste. What I mean is that as a whole sparring is only one aspect of a broad curriculum. I used to spar as often as I could, as I matured I don't feel the need to spar as often. The sparring at WKSA tournaments is like most "open" tournaments. Basically its "tag sparring", wasn't always like that, but as you know with the threat of a law suit for an injury we had to adjust how we compete. AFA individual schools the Association doesn't suggest how we should conduct our sparring or how often we do it. It's up to the individual school owner to decide that. In my dojang mostly we "tag spar" so that when competing the student has the proper control. The scoring is such that you must throw a proper technique that would have been effective, in order to get a point. Sometimes we spar without keeping track of points, These are two or three minute rounds nonstop take downs are permitted, my favorite way to spar.

    Conditioning is a big part of KSW. However it may not be by definition what you were asking. Classes should start with body conditioning exercises. These are designed to get your body ready for practicing. They include rotating the joints, stretching muscles, and Ki Cho Cha gi (wringing out the ki) the later is a series of postures in which the practitioner Ki aps and moves in a way that increases the flow of energy, in particular, blood and oxygen throughout the body. Another part of body conditioning is attained through our extensive falling techniques. As you know, if you practice a grappling art, you will be thrown. We spend a lot of time learning to fall properly as a defense against throws. Beginners start very light and low to the ground, intermediate students perform falls from a standing position, and advance students are encouraged to jump for a high fall. This progression helps condition the body to take the impact of a fall or even a strike or kick. We also condition the hands by striking a canvas bag of small stones, or use the "heated pots" of course and fine media, to make the hands more effective as a weapon. We also Meditate and/or Ki Breath to condition the mind and internal energy. Doing hyung is also a part of conditioning as it builds muscle memory, strength, balance, and artistic ability. And of course push ups, sit ups, aerobic and anaerobic exercise the later usually connected to one of the above exercises.

    As in anything else the teaching style is connected to the individual instructor. You could have five different instructors and you would have five different teaching styles. What makes KSW unique is that the information is passes down through the ranks from top to bottom and for the most part is consistent among the affiliated schools. If you have been following this section of the form (MAP) you will be aware of the fact that KSW has been franchised by WKSA and part of the effect is that a unification of the information (Techniques, weapons and Hyung) is taking place. While WKSA doesn't meddle too much in the day to day operation of the school is does set quality standards that each instructor is to maintain. The goal is that no matter what WKSA school you attend the "product" is the same.

    I hope this helps you better understand KSW and how it fits into the realm of Traditional Martial Arts. It's not MMA in the sense of what is now mainstream MMA and from the outside it may seem unworthy of content as a "real fighting system". One must take it as a whole to truly appreciate the powerful impact it can have on an individuals health and awareness and the ability to protect oneself if needed. IMO there is more to self defense than the ability to destroy someone who intends harm. My point is that even if one was alone on a desert Island you would still need self defense...That's why I am KSW

    Thanks G
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2011
  13. Happy Feet Cotton Tail

    Happy Feet Cotton Tail Valued Member

    Thanks very much Obewan.

    The reason I ask is that I spent three years training under SBN Ian Cameron*, who I believe is quite a well respected figure in KSW and a friend of Kuk Sa Nim.

    The hour long class consisted of 25 minutes practising strikes on air, along with a general warm up, followed by form practise, ending the session in "tag sparring" or techniques or weapons practise, neither were ever drilled with any resisting partners.

    As I developed more experience in MA I have started to develope some concerns with that style of training and I would love to know -especially with the recent split- whether such training methodlogies are uniform across the board? As the man who I recieved my KSW instruction from was so high up in KSW circles I am a little nervous that such approaches are heavily ingrained into the system.

    I love the TMA's and I seek to return to them once I've developed a strong skill set in the arts I currently practise, but I really don't like the way they are trained right now.

    So I'm wondering just how much freedom does a KSW teacher have in implementing his own take on KSW training?

    * The website for SBN Camerons school- http://www.ksw.scotnet.co.uk/Ian Profile.html
  14. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    Hi, Giacomo.

    Allow me to remind you of the tournaments hosted by master Marlin Sims, which took place at West Point (and which Obewan attended IIRC). The sparring matches at those tourneys could hardly be described as "tag sparring" since the action could *go to the ground* and continue there until a winner could be determined (according to the rules, of course). As Obewan pointed out, the KSW curriculum is laden with almost too much stuff to teach, especially for someone who views MA as a hobby. The *simplified* version of KSW that is pushed by the powers that be, is toward little or no grappling (in the same sense as MMA or BJJ) and only tag-sparring. Full contact (or even semi full-contact) sparring as well as grappling (both stand-up & on the ground) can be advocated by a schoolowner, but the students of such an individual wouldn't fare well in a WKSA tournament without undergoing severe *retraining* prior to the event (I'm speaking from experience on this bit of advice).

    I have always felt that only teaching tournament-style sparring (i.e. tag-sparring) is an injustice to the student, who would be better served, from a self-defense POV, with more realism (provided by full-contact sparring). For safety concerns and the fact that not all folks are willing to plunge into the violent nature of full-contact sparring, dialing back the intensity of the training towards semi full-contact sparring is an allowable adjustment IMO.

    Because kuk-sool has SO much in its curriculum, time constraints do prohibit a teacher form engaging in the sort of *rolling around* that is practiced in jiu-jitsu. But my answer to that was to allow a certain amount of *pressure-testing* while students practiced their joint-locks, which meant that advanced students (brown belt & definitely danbo) could add a grappling element to their sparring practice (if they so desired) because they could do so and yet still retain the control needed to prevent serious injury to their training partners. Unfortunately, I think I was in the minority when it came to this type of training, but I know there are others out there (teaching KSW) who share my passion for realism.
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2011
  15. Happy Feet Cotton Tail

    Happy Feet Cotton Tail Valued Member

    Thanks very much been waiting a long time for an answer like that! Good luck with your training and sincere good will to you and your school. :D
  16. Jindotgae

    Jindotgae Valued Member

    do you live fairly close to sbn ian camerons school? if not you have 3 awesome schools near you, livingston glasgow and edinburgh !


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