Over the years I have been lucky to train with many top Eskrimadors, What I noticed when training with the Filipino Masters still makes me smile when students walk away scratching their heads thinking that they cant get it. When Westeners teach, they explain in every little detail were your hand should be, you body, your foot work etc etc which for a Westener is a good way to learn. But I have found on more than one occasion, when a Filipino teaches it is not so much what they say that counts, it's how they move. I have found you have to pay very close attention to every little body movement which all too often is not explained, then you see why they make it look so easy and why it works everytime for them. Then its a matter of trying to mimic the movements to figure out how they done that. I was lucky in that I noticed this little way of teaching very early on and when the GM's I trained with seen that I had noticed they smiled in the knowledge that I was paying attention to what they were doing, I also found that I got a lot more information from them by watching every detail as opposed to just listening and try to do. My students have pointed out to me on many occasions that I teach like this too, but then again it is the main way I have been taught, all too often I hear a begginer say to one of the seniors "I don't get it", they then reply, "watch what he does, look at his hands, his feet, his body, don't just listen to what he say's". Makes me smile because I know why I teach that way. For those of you who have also trained with both Westener and Pinoy what did you find? Regards Pat
nice observation sir , yup my GM also does that thing, sometimes or majority of the time, I really cant understand what he tells me, like, "this is the way to dis arm this...", then whaammm , that was fast sir, i murmured w/o him hearing , so I ask him to repeat & really pay attention to hands, foot movement, body same as listening to what he said , for westener, I have not trained yet w/ one, hope you could teach me sir , I met Sir Brahm Frank & Sir Greg Beeman of Common Sense Self Defense, they visited GM Vic because they ant to see GM's close to Prof Presas. Whew :woo: , they rock, felt the're sincerity for the love of the ART, demo some moves, eww.. :cry: , they demo like it's/we're in a real combat, they let you feel the pain :cry: , hahaha-lol, but its nice experience :love:
for some reason i still seem to get that even now from you. although so much as i did when i first came over to osset. Although only every having trained under westeners and Danny Guba once, i have to say the change from my first fma instructor to pat (i still do train with both) was a bit of shock.
haha I've noticed the same thing with certain people, I could sit and watch tapes of them for hours with the sound off. I saw the Dan Inosanto seminar that's featured on the Game Of Death DVD, the way he moves is amazing. Even 'simple' gunting and backfist entries vs. different strikes, you can see every single part of his body is doing what it should. Same with a PG Edgar Sulite video I have, there is just a certain magic to his movements that is amazing to watch. And a Bob Breen tape I recently purchased, which in my inexperience I initially thought didn't contain much information, is an absolute mine of great body mechanics - you just have to watch him doing the drills.
Nice observation Pat. Western and Pinoy teaching styles probably go hand in hand with Western and Pinoy learning styles. Thomas Andres, in "Understanding the Filipino," wrote: "When a westerner is talking to somebody, he listens to WHAT the person is saying (to the CONTENT of the speech). To a Filipino, this is less important. When he listens to a person, his immediate instinctive reaction is to try and figure out what the speaker is like, what kind of person he is, and by identifying with the speaker, he can better understand what he is talking about.... Communication is not merely by words alone. Tone of voice, choice of words, bodily posture, all communicate a variety of messages" Sometimes words can be deceiving, intentionally. In Bulucan, a province just north of Manila, the chefs are notorious for hiding their recipe secrets, they will intentionally mislead you about ingredients and directions. A lot of old time arnis teachers are like this too. They may not really know or not really trust yet a new student, and will often withhold or mislead. Filipinos know this and really try to watch what is done to really understand what is being done. Even if there is no intent to withhold anything, many teachers don't have the educational background to provide a conceptual framework to provide a training paradym for their students. Instead of breaking down body mechanics as principle of kinesiology, a Pinoy would tell you to relax and do as he does. Having said this, many Pinoy teachers do provide a conceptual framework and teach to students who are accustomed to that style. The head of LSAI at UP Diliman is a graduate student of Human Kinetics and teaches to a group of well-educated, articulate students. My own teacher in dumog, Danny Foronda, has both and education and the world travel to be able to provide a comparative analysis of different styles and a teaching methodology to break down new movements for any student. I've been lucky. My teacher Guro Jun deLeon was Filipino born and raised but lived a good part of his life in Canada. He can explain, but also likes to show by example and very much emphasizes the aesthetic quality of the movement. His senior student Guro Romelle, was Filipino born but raised and educated in Canada. His teaching style is based on western analysis and empiricism and is more focused on bio-mechanics and spatial awareness in explanating the fucntion of a movement. My teacher's teacher, Mr. Maning Recto, was pure Pinoy. More than the physical movement, I learned about the warrior's mentality and fierceness that you need for arnis. He was like a Nike commercial, "just do it!!!"
i have the best of both worlds. my kali de leon instructor grew up in canada so he teaches like a canadian teacher. but i was raised on the islands so i tend to watch him. i feel tha pinoys are very keen on non-verbal communication and that they can't seem to seperate the lesson from the personalities involved. that's why fma on the islands, like almost anything on these islands, tend to be personality centered and highly politicized.
Filipinos do tend to emphasize reading 'between the lines'. Perhaps this is one reason why arnis has evolved into several 'styles according to GM so and so'. It is also a known fact that a lot of the earlier generation GMs never kept or even attempted to make written notes or instructions of their art. Most were taught to select students, some of whom were quick enough to systematize and put names to the different moves, and still others chose to keep it 'all in the mind'. Up until today, the grand masters who chose to keep 'it' among themselves remain anonymous, to the detriment of the art.
Good Post, and good insight. I have found that even if they have a good understanding of my language, and explain it well, I still have to go back to how does it feel? This can been done by watching and seeing what and how they do it, and then when you get is yourself I try to remember that feeling.
In both FMA and KF classes I've had instructors do more or less silent lessons. No body talks, just watch the instructor and mimic. I've also noticed a pattern with FMA people to respond to questions about specific body positioning issues with "just keep working the drill." The expectation always seems pretty high for figuring out the answer for yourself by working the movement in context. - Matt
