Hi! I was just wondering how many people have been using weapons in karate. we've been doing kata's with jo-staffs and have started using swords at my dojo but i think it just goes against what karate-do stands for. The sensei says its to think outside the box and just using techniques in karate and experimenting with weapons but i believe that if i wanted to do weapons training, i'd go do an art that teaches it. i know a few of you use weapons in your karate sessions, just wondering what you lot think?
I think most karate schools use weapons (kobudo) training as part of the curriculum. We use tanbo, bo, tonfa, sai, jo, and a couple others at my school.
It is not necessary to train with weapons whilst practicing karate, but it does have numerous benefits. It will, for example improve your hand-eye coordination and footwork extensively.
We do a little bit of weapons stuff, but not too much really... I would like if there was an extra class for just weapons really. I think of it more as just an add on, and it's fun to learn
Some weapons katas look like they were made for karate, with the same stances, kicks, and footwork used in karate. I think it's a great compliment to regular training and how could you not enjoy it, it's so much fun (i.e. tanbo drills, tonfa drills, etc)
Yes, but the way it's been explained to us that "empty hand" doesn't mean that you have nothing in your hands. I can't remember right now what the empty should mean, but it was something more philosophical
This comes from Funakoshi's Karate-Do Kyohan: Now we get to the interesting ones: Number 4 I believe is a reference to the Heart Sutra. Well worth a read although if you're like me you may want to try to get hold of a commentary too A translation of the Heart Sutra can be found here . Hope it helps.
Number 2 is not quite correct. Karate is originally an okinawan art and those who practise okinawan karate are quick to point out that okinawan and japanese cultures are two totally separate things. Also the fact remains that early karate (or tode or te/ti) was influenced by chinese fighting methods. I don't agree with point 1 either, because it is my understanding that many early karate (or in this tode) masters were also proficient with weapons. Besides, the study of weapons helps your empty handed performance, so whether or not karate means literally empty hand, there is much to be learned from kobujutsu also
You're correct but remember that Okinawan karate was not called 'empty' hand. Funakoshi changed it. When he went to Japan he wanted Karate to be accepted by the Japanese so he needed to re-invent it as a Japanese martial art. As I understand it, many of his Okinawan peers weren't massively impressed by what he was doing and continued to use the old name. There's no doubt that Chinese martial arts influenced Okinawan martial arts e.g. look at the history of Kata like Chinto as an example. Don't forget though that the Okinawans were decking each other before many of these ideas arrived from China and that they had their own indigenous fighting system 'Te' already. Of course this too could have originated from China but I doubt we'll ever know for sure.
Actually, he did no such thing. The change of kanji from "china hand" to "empty hand" has been falsely attributed Funakoshi. Funakoshi may have been the one who popularized the new meaning, but he didn't invent it. The first documented usage of the current kanji was by Hanashiro Chomo, as student of Anko Itosu, in his book which was published in 1905, about 30 years before Funakoshi. Here's a series of articles about this: http://seinenkai.com/articles/noble/noble-shorin1.html. Officially the name was changed, after pressure from Dai Nippon Butokukai and present were Miaygi Chojun, Motobu Choki, Chitose Tsuyoshi, Yabu Kentsu, Hanashiro Chomo, Chibana Choshin, Shiroma Masahige, Kyan Chotoku, Nakasone Genwa, Taira Shinken, Higa Seiko and Nakamura Shigeru. Note that Funakoshi was not present. I totally agree with you here. How much and what is the influence of chinese kempo (of chuan-fa or kung-fu if you like) on karate, is something that we'll probably never really know (edit: pressed the damn Send button too early)
Two points, first, I don't see a lot of Chinese influence in Karate weapons with the exception of the bo or staff. Traditional Chinese weapons such as three section staff, spear, fan, butterfly knives and numerous others did not make the transition to the islands of Okinawa. Instead the native farming implements such as nunchucka, tonfa etc became the weapons of choice due to accessibility. I find it quite interesting that empty hand concepts and internal training were impressive enough to make their way back to Okinawan but for whatever reason traditional Chinese weaponry did not. Perhaps an historian can weigh in on that subject. Secondly, I find weapons in traditional Karate somewhat outdated and unimportant. For the most part, Karate weapon training seems to be just some more form training to add to tournament competition. Any weapon practice should enable one to utilize whatever is available in a self defense situation, but in my opinion, I don't see much of that with Okinawan weapons. In my style we use bo, sai and tonfa. Yes I can roll up a magazine and have better insight into how to use it because of my weapon training but I still feel an art like Kali gives you better, more versatile training. Bottom line, why practice something that has little or no use in the real world. I'd rather utilize my limited/finite martial arts training time on my empty hand curriculum. But that's just me.
Yes, the weapons training as means of self-defence is outdated, but the point of weapons training to me is that they help my empty handed skills. I know I am not likely to be carrying couple of sai with me on a friday night out on town
Read the article TimoS, very interesting to hear it from the Shorin Ryu perspective. I guess when you see the two POVs together you get to realise how history is in fact politics DAT, I was kinda thinking along the same lines as TimoS. If you study weapons as a way to enhance unarmed skills then isn't that useful (albeit there may be more effective teaching in Kali etc)? Also though TimoS, doesn't that answer the point about 'empty' hands and weapons training too? Couldn't you argue that training in Okinawan weapons style is empty handed training?
Hmm, I hadn't thought about it that way, but yeah, I guess that is quite right. Good point, thanks. I'll be able to use that
It does not go against what Karate stands for. I belong to the JKA which of course teaches Shotokan, you must remember the history surrounding Karate. It was developed by farmers, fishermen and Samurai alike, therefore many techniques in Katas can be used with weapons. The most obvious weapon is the Bo-staff, developed by monks in China and was always carried by monks on pilgrimages, it is a humble weapon. These weapons which we practice with are only substitutes for every day objects we might find. So a Bo-staff could be a pole or broom in an evryday sittuation. My motto is if you are facing an armed opponent then it is good to know weapon techniques, if you don't feel confident enough to use unarmed combat. So long as you don't go over the top and completely obliterate them! Remember that Karate is just one side of martial arts and Kobudo is another. An old man says "when you play chess you must know the rules and strategies, but within that you must know how to cheat. For you may end up playing an opponent who knows how to cheat."
I'm in Tang Soo Do rather than Karate (and we do have a weapons section), but hopefully you'll find this valid here: The original 'army based' users of these techniques would have used up their projectile weapons, their long-reach weapons, and their shorter weapons before they ended up in 'empty hand' combat - so the majority of 'empty hand' fighters were primarily weapon users. The arts we know today have grown out of this fighting arena, which makes it common sense that the katas, etc, feel valid (or can be adapted to) weapon use. Very true on the substitution, I have been spotted in the garden practicing my 'rake sparring routine' - but my teacher also gives good attention to the walking stick and the belt. Both are likely to be available when needed. (TimoS - why would you not have your sai on the way to a marshmallow toasting party on a Friday night ) We are told that it is good to know weapons techniques (even if you don't have a weapon) because you then know how an armed opponent will approach you. Especially if they are 'untrained', then your knowledge of what the weapon can do, and how it moves, works to your advantage (always assuming that you can't run away... first line of defence against weapons )
