UK law and kobutan

Discussion in 'Weapons' started by Stan O'Kella, Jun 8, 2005.

  1. ScottUK

    ScottUK More human than human...

    ...oh, and the purpose behind the kubotan is well-known by UK police forces. Don't forget to tell them it's a keyring...
  2. colinc83540

    colinc83540 New Member

    I carry my keys on a kubotan. I have MS and my eyesight has been affected by this so it is useful so I dont lose my keys, I do know how to use it as I have studied various fighting formats. I also use crutches to aid my walking as my legs have also been affected. I also know how to use my crutches for self defence, I learned a lot of this from a thalidomide victim who was born with no legs, he is a martial artist also, a black belt in ju jitsu, three time nunchaku world champion and doorman. He is also an expert in using his crutches as a weapon. I figured if he can do all that with no legs, I could use my crutches too. I need them to walk and I find the kubotan useful for my keys since I cant see well. Although I use both kubotan and crutches to aid my disability I am able to use both as effective weapons. I dont go looking for trouble obviously and on the occasions people have tried to rob me (seeing as I look vulnerable, sad world we live in) I have managed to use psychology to scare them off. Still though, Im sure I have a reasonable excuse for these, tools, weapons, aids as that is what they are, I beleive almost anything can be used as a weapon.
  3. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    If you were stopped and searched by the police, disability or no, you would likely be arrested and charged with carrying an offensive weapon. Carrying a kubotan is explicitly banned under the law and you could easily find some other way of helping you find your keys.
  4. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Actually an assist to a physical disability can be a mitigation - "without lawful excuse" is the caveat
  5. openminded

    openminded Valued Member

    Extendable batons are named as prohibited items in UK law, it makes no specific mention of kobutan's. They would fall under the made or adapted or intended category.
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2016
  6. openminded

    openminded Valued Member

    Carry a decent metal torch, no arguing with what thats made for, its instant arming and allowed in a self defence situation.
  7. Simon

    Simon Moved on Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    I'm not a fan this approach.

    A metal torch is hardly a thing I'd like to carry around on a daily basis.

    It's not something that's comfortable or easily concealed and certainly not something you'd want to carry when out on a stroll with your partner.

    In the UK summer is now here, so longer hours of daylight. Hardly the time to be carrying a torch.

    In addition these things are only any good if you've practiced drawing the weapon.

    I'd argue the torch is a bit too cumbersome to be drawing it easily.

    My own approach is to have my hands free.

    Yes you can hit someone on the head with a metal torch and do a lot more damage than me and my empty hands approach, but I prefer the dexterity empty hands gives me.

    Both hands free to push, grab, choke, strike, lock etc.

    The torch can be a good weapon, but not the best option in my opinion.
  8. openminded

    openminded Valued Member

    Totally agree, I personally would much rather have free hands, but some people are not that way inclined and feel the need to have 'a thing' or weapon. Each have their pro's and con's Suppose.

    I carry a surefire torch for work (amongst other items) and its much easier to justify its use than say a baton.

    From a legal perspective, a torch or everyday item is far easier to justify in the 'reasonable excuse' defence and a Police Officer would be less inclined (except the inept one's) to arrest for possession of an offensive weapon with an every day object.

    Its not about what you do, and far more to do with what you say to the first police officer on scene. When in doubt, say nowt....
  9. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    But there is an argument. If you ever end up in court for hitting someone with a torch, and your post is found and used as evidence, you have effectively admitted that you carry a torch with the intent to use it as an offensive weapon, and not exclusively for its intended purpose.
  10. openminded

    openminded Valued Member

    This is an argument that I hear regularly. Lets look at it.

    1 - No one knows who I am here.

    2 - A court would never know I posted this. Why? because the police would never go to the trouble of recovering firstly my internet history, secondly my electronic media devices for an assault/GBH etc. There would be no justifiable reason to carry out such a search of my home, nor would it be lawful for them to demand info from the website provider and my email hosts. UNLESS someone told them this post had been made and it was my intent to go and assault someone. (Which it is not)
  11. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    When would you use this torch?

    In self defence I mean.
  12. openminded

    openminded Valued Member

    I never said I intended to use it, just that it can be used.

    I do have a torch, I have used it, I don't carry it for that purpose.
  13. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Learn to actually pay attention to your surrounding and invest in training in decent physical skillset

    A flashlight without training is an utter waste of time
  14. Alansmurf

    Alansmurf Aspire to Inspire before you Expire Supporter

    Blindingly good response as ever ...
  15. openminded

    openminded Valued Member

    Totally agree
  16. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    So when would you use it?
  17. openminded

    openminded Valued Member

    When ever its dark and i need to see :)
  18. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    From The Criminal Justice Act 1988

    "the weapon sometimes known as a “hollow kubotan”, being a cylindrical container containing a number of sharp spikes;"

    So the concept of a kubotan exists in UK law, but the specific variant that is explicitly banned is a pointed one.
  19. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    When do you feel you would use it in self defence?
  20. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Let's say that you accidentally kill someone at some point in the future when the Investigatory Powers Bill becomes law; number 2 becomes very easy for a court to hear. If they are going to use the bill to catch fly tippers, I reckon a GBH, murder or manslaughter case might be deemed important enough to pull up a web history from your ISP.

    No point closing the stable door after the horse has bolted. Might as well talk technique.

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