I think he always talked about him because he was the best example of what he taught being used in competition. The CACC money machine is still tiny in it's scope as compared to the BJJ world.
Which of these can claim they are a Catch wrestler? a) Ric Flair b) Greg Gagne c) Ricky Steamboat d) Harry Smith e) Sakuraba f) Josh Barnett g) Marty Jones h) Iron Shiek i) Ken Patera
Are you talking about this sort of elbow from guard? Because that's already legal. Guys like Condit and Florian are/were pretty well known for them: [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQnPo4kV0UM"]Jujitsu: Bottom Guard Striking - YouTube[/ame] I might be lacking context, though, but the post you responded to was referring to strikes from the bottom.
I was referring to the rule in general as it applies to both top and bottom and that the rules (and their interpretations in this case) have a big effect on the top/bottom dynamic. For example not being able to kick the head of a grounded opponent. Gods I miss up kicks.
It doesn't really effect the bottom very much because it's physically impossible to throw a ceiling-to-floor elbow from your back.
Ok so, Billy Trained the guys in the UWFI, which included Sak, but also Anjoh and Takada, yet the last two didn’t get his real skills but Sak did even though all three were in the same organisation (one actually running it) all three were at the time simply show fighters and all three his students at his gym? Could this claim be being made simply beace the later two got their backside handed to them by Rickosn and the first didn’t? Likewise ken Shamrock and Masakatsu Funaki both learned catch from students of gotch, and both lost to Gracie’s? So the argument seems to be 4 of the 5 above learned show holds and styles or didn’t get in-depth catch training, the 5th one learned the real deal even though he was also taking part in show fights at the time as the first two in the UWFI, and the second two were actually taking part in real fights in pancrase? Im not having a go at catch, (i was lucky enough to train with coaches who had good catch knowledge and even meet and train with billy) but it sounds as bad as anything the Gracie’s have come up with over the years, every video of catch always comes back to one person Sak, and well you can also include Josh I suppose, but most of the videos that are entitled how catch beats BJJ, or how the catch style can defeat BJJ should really be renamed this is how one of the most talented grapplers ever beats BJJ
Losing to Gracies doesn't equal not good. Shamrock and Funaki both have legit catch skills, as do most of the students from the Fujiwara line. Takada CLEARLY is a show wrestler, his fights against Rickson being the only actual fights he's had. Sak must just have had an interest and Robinson saw something in him.
Nope but if you are claiming catch is the style to beat BJJ, and use the Gracie killer as your example to prove your point, shouldn’t you also note that no other catch guy has had the same success as he had had, even though a number had the same teacher or just as legitimate a teacher? And logically if you acknowledge that then you have to acknowledge that Sak is one of the greatest natural grapplers of our era, and his victories are his and not catches as such
Or just possibly something to do with the fact that Sakuraba was a nationally top-five ranked freestyle wrestler in high school and so had an actual base of grappling skill to bolt his learned-for-show subs onto.
But you're now talking about an extremist fanboy position, not a rationalist viewpoint. Catch is a style that can beat BJJ, although tbf on evidence so can Muay Thai and Greco. Should also point out that Rickson beat Funaki by kneeing him in the face which was illegal under the rules that Rickson himself had demanded and then beating him up so badly on the ground that he was in no position to effectively grapple. Viewing early CACC MMA hyperbole without addressing BJJ hyperbole (which is how we ended up in this conversation). The former is very much a product of the latter. Also remember that CACC has drawn from a much smaller talent pool, so there are going to be fewer standouts. These discussions often forget the numerous BJJ black belts who've been ground down in guard by heavy handed wrestlers.
Indeed, but I thought you were implying that he taught Sakuraba something different to his other pupils, making Sak into t3h re4l while everyone else got the dreaded show-holds? This interview, for example, doesn't make it sound like that at all. Just that Sak got super good because he was already a beast wrestler.
This has nothing to do with what we were talking about. Ronda wasn't ninja-skilling her way into Kimura reversals, she was letting her opponents put their hooks in, getting face-cranked and hulking-out an escape by the skin of her teeth. Clearly her bottom game got better once she stopped doing that, even though it was by the heretical method of learning to fight off her back rather than playing turtle like Sakuraba.
Josh Barnett submitted Dean Lister at Metamoris. A man who had not been submitted in many years. And Josh being a catch wrestler who trained with Billy Robinson.
I would like you for the sake of this making any sense to me at all, relate to me a few examples of Ronda ever playing guard from her back. I would be interested to see this as I think I have watched every single one of her professional fights and some of her pre-pro fights and I have not once ever seen her in that position. Thanks-
3:47 - 5:18 is the exchange I'm talking about: http://m.uk.ufc.com/media/UFC-170-Free-Fight-Rousey-Tate-168
How the thread went from talking about McGregor's jits to Sakuraba's wrestling I'm not entirely sure...
