Discussion in 'Karate' started by Alexander, Jan 20, 2005.
*prods KP with a stick*
Come on wake up snoozy! There's debatin' goin' on!!
When comparing boxing punches to karate punches, I believe it is important to consider that the punches were designed from different ranges.
Do any karateka here recall ever being told to keep your guard up in sparring?
The guideline taught to me was that you could have your hands down when outside of kicking range, but when inside kicking range, hands were up to guard.
When the hands are up (in front), the punches are going to resemble boxing a lot and if you train in boxing too, the punches will be boxing punches. Although bare fisted you will usually have your hands more in front.
When further away (kicking ranges), one of the main components of the punch was to eliminate telegraphing your attack. A lot of basic karate punch training is designed to minimize movement so that there is less chance of telegraphing your intentions.
This usually means a karate punch can come from kicking ranges and seem very fast even though there is a step distance between you and your opponent, the amount of time to predict the attack is minimal. The exception to the one step distance is counter punching, in karate the counter punch can come from an angle where the fist is hidden from the opponent but this is very close range.
So this might be over simplified but karate punch for punching from kicking ranges (because they don't telegraph as much if trained properly), boxing punches or the equivalent for punching ranges.
Now bear in mind that boxing can use the jab at distance. In boxing they don't have to worry about takedowns and kicks. Kickboxing or Pride would be a better example of how boxing changes when kicks and takedowns are added into the mix.
Also, in karate, when punches are jammed because the distance is too close, the shorter punches from the guard and elbows can be employed. Very similar to Muay Thai.
*Takes off the glasses with eyes painted on the lenses*
Saying that Karate's punches are better than boxing's punches would be like saying that Judo is superior to Brazilian Jiu Jitsu when it comes to ground fighting. Boxing is the art of punching. Punching is all that they do. How could a style which incorporates punches as part of their training throw better punches than a style which focuses solely on punching? And if they did, why wouldn't boxers have studied Karate's punching techniques and work on perfecting those?
WHAT A BRILLIANT ANSWER, AWSOME M8!
Please don't "retroquote" in previous posts either - it is very poor form! :woo:
THERE ARE A MILLION VARIABLES THAT EFFECT THE PUNCH
You could write a freekin bible on this one subject so i hope u aint lookin for a correct answer in here somewhere.
The best answer i can give u aint a good one but it takes the best facts and opinions ov every answer on this thread as just a rough outline answer to your question.
First of all a on percentage if you had a karateka and a boxer, with the exact physical and mental build, and the same experiance under there belt a boxer would punch harder full stop!
A billion reasons, i aint got the time 2 explain and im not exactly an expert either, but looking at lojic and science i'l try to prove my case.
Theoretically a karate ( aka Traditional ) punch is more powerfull,
if you look at the power equation
power = mass x speed, bearing in mind that the mass of each person is the same and they both correctly put ther weight into the punch. the key factor wer lookin at here is speed. Speed is distance over time, say for instance that they have both equally trained fast twitch muscle fibers and that the time they can move ther arm from the start to the target is the same, then the key factor is distance, been as the karate punch starts from further back ther theroedically a karate punch is more powerfull.
But that is a biased veiw not containing any other factors or variables of infomation, watch Fight science on national geographic for a pro opinion
Why don't we just call it a day and say that Karate and Boxing punches are both equal. Then all the boys and girls will be happy.
No but i box and i dont stand there tensed up, im relaxed up until point of contact. I would put that down to technique, of how to punch hard and fast, if im loose all the way thro then theres not as much power (and the possibility ill hurt my wrist) and if im too tense then the power will lack some speed.
To be fair we're on about the same thing but using different terms
a punch is a punch is a punch is a punch - why are e splitting hairs about it - if it works it is likely to look the same no matter what source of training you have had - karate punch, boxing punch, mma punch, whatever - they are all exactly the same thing
A conclusion I came to the other day.
I was just thinking about the 13 postures of Taiji Quan the other day, specifically Lie-Jin (Splitting) and how it relates to P'i Quan (Splitting) and P'eng Quan (Crushing) from Hsing I.
Chambering of the punches is seen in the classic forms of these techniques, and that got me thinking about the karate chamber. People often say that at high level, Karate is an "internal" art, and then it hit me. In Taiji/Hsing I, a punch is not applied using the chamber, the chamber is just used to train the energy in the splitting motion of forward and reverse action simultaniously. I now think that the same method is used in Karate. Not a hidden Bunkai or such, but a method of developing internal power.
Just thought I would share
Something I came up with is based on the fact that acceleration of a punch comes from the changing of muscle groups.
For instance, if I just swung my arm, this would use only a few muscle groups. My arm would swing and gain speed until the muscles were fully contracted and then the swing would not long gain acceleration except from other factors such as gravity and momentum.
However, if I punch and through rotation (such as of the forearm) combined with other forces, I continually change muscle groups, and as a result I can generate great acceleration is a short distance from the beginning of the punch all the way through the target.
Now there is a particular set of muscles in the anterior of the shoulder that can be very important in punching power/acceleration mostly at the END OF THE PUNCH. I noticed that when chambering the hand high, this area of the body (anterior of the shoulder) is brought back.
Now I'm not saying to bring back the shoulder before punching as that can telegraph your intent to punch, however, what I'm saying is that preparing and using the muscles on the anterior of the shoulder does add to power and acceleration of a punch mostly at the end of it.
I could explain more, but I hope I've said enough to get people to think of one reason for chambering punching is to train people to prepare their muscles in the anterior of the shoulder for a more powerful punch. Later on, the chambering is not necessary as the body is trained to use those muscles without having to chamber the hand.
Just some thoughts.
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