Discussion in 'Karate' started by mani, Jun 18, 2003.




    76 vote(s)

    81 vote(s)
  1. Anari

    Anari Valued Member

    My $.02

    “Full Contact Karate” & “Kick Boxing” are sporting versions or a lighter adaptation of Traditional Karate. Much in the same Trapp & Skeet shooting tests shooting skills… but cannot even remotely consider a combat skill.

    “Sport Karate” “Point Karate” “Koshiki” Full Contact” however you name the game….(Hell, Even Tae-bo, I knew Billy Blanks when he had hair) It is just that, a game. A game governed by rules. There is usually a referee standing in the ring to ensure that both competitors follow the rules.

    It’s interesting that you compare “Old Drills & Forms” to a class with “more emphasis on sparring and more fighting based techniques”

    Kata is karate! Everything I learn about Power, Speed, Balance, Energy Flow & Transfer of Energy and Bone Alignment are all learned in Kata, Ipon & Kihon drills. I pray that I never need to strike anyone as hard as I do in Kata.

    Kumite is the practical application of kata. The Karate-ka MUST learn to control his/her own center (on many levels) before he/she can ever even remotely hope to control an opponent. Without a solid grounding in traditional fundamental technique… the best you can hope for is a loose emulation of karate. When I was coming up, most of the “kick-boxers” were club boxers that couldn’t make it in professional boxing. They went to a dojo… learned a few kicks… “look at me! I’m a kick boxer!”

    Years ago I was standing on a ski slope in Colorado… A group of us were watching these guys skiing the “black diamond” slopes… one particular guy was just flying down the mountain… we were pretty impressed…. The guy next to me started counting down “five – four – three –two” before he made the one count… this guy just absolutely “bit it” then continued tumbling about 50 meters down the slope…. To the novice eye…. He really looked like he knew what he was doing…. But the guy next to me knew better.

    Take the time…. And LEARN the arts! Karate is no more just about “punching & kicking” than literature is just about words. Take the time… expand your vocabulary; learn the meanings as well as the origins of the words. Learn to converse intelligently and efficiently… BE INTERESTING! Do not take the road less traveled.

    I’m 46 years old; I’ve trained 2/3 of my life. I have absolutely no desire to “go” 5 rounds with anyone… I still play in the point game (understanding that it is just a game). In my opinion the difference between Traditional schools –vs.- Full contact schools… it’s a matter of technique and efficiency. I would much rather drop an attacker with a well placed strike to one of dozens of pressure points… Blow out a knee or even dislocate a shoulder as opposed to trading kicks & punches. On the street… in a real “live” situation, you do what you have been trained to do. You fall back on those things that are most basic and fundamental … no referee… no judges…no gloves. I’ll put my $$ on the well trained traditional martial artist every time.
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2007
  2. shotokangirl

    shotokangirl Valued Member

  3. JHughes

    JHughes New Member

    old forms are traditional i would give it that but they don't tend work in cases practicality. thats just me. :)
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2007
  4. JHughes

    JHughes New Member

    well said. ;)
  5. KMA

    KMA Valued Member

    Traditional or MCdojo

    I agree with Mike.
    Traditional is full contact. If you train to point fight with no full contact, then you might be at a McDojo. Without traditional training you lose out on important concepts and understanding of basic principles. Without training full contact you can't properly apply what you have learned. There should be not difference between the two.
  6. nzproud

    nzproud Valued Member

    I do kyoklushin myself but i dunno if i should call it *full* contact since it doesnt allow head punches. It does require high physical conditionings for taking bare knuckle punches and kicks though. Daido juku seems more full contact to me.
  7. JHughes

    JHughes New Member

    to be honest isn't it just personal prefrence. yes kicks to the head don't tend to work but a good punch will. you don't always have to for that pressure point traditional fighting all the time.

    otherwise you could start and arguement at the moment that could last for a very long time. ;)
  8. UrAsJ

    UrAsJ New Member

    Fullcontact all the way ofcourse!
    Traditional Karate is not practical and its not even remotely full contact.
    You wont get to be a better fighter without experience in fullcontact fighting. Props to Kyokushin and its offshots. Props to kickboxing!

    and a freaking 50 dkp MINUS!! to traditional kata centric karate.
  9. Llamageddon

    Llamageddon MAP's weird cousin Supporter

    What's a 50 dkp minus?

    And why's it freaking? Did you say something you shouldn't have?
  10. acer

    acer Valued Member

    Well,real traditional Karate is always full contact :)
  11. UrAsJ

    UrAsJ New Member

    Then all the traditional dojos are kyokushin... ;)
    Most "Traditional" dojos I've seen are either point sparring og no sparring at all. :[
  12. Mehrad

    Mehrad Valued Member

    First learn how to punch and kick correctly. As you improve your technique learn how to execute your moves with full power/speed.

    Whether full contact or not, your dojo should teach you how to bring the best out of your techniques otherwise their is no point of even remotely calling it traditional or full contact because you wont be learning either :)

    In my opinion if you go to a good dojo, you'll kind of learn either in different ways, just one will be presented to you with more passion (ie. Kyokushinkai)
  13. Moosey

    Moosey invariably, a moose Supporter

    I'd like to try kyokushin, but unfortunately there aren't any clubs nearby. How much sparring is done in kyokushin? In the average class - what's the format like? How much basics, kata, callisthenics, partner drills, sparring?
  14. Mehrad

    Mehrad Valued Member

    Same here, classes are too far away.

    The basics are pretty much similar (ie. they do have zen kutso dachi for some basic techniques) however it is primarily stand up. They have different katas than other styles, its like as though you are sparring with someone invisible (sorry for the bad description).

    In some dojos they expect you to do a handstand for a certain time, X amount of pushups, crunches etc. in order to progress belts and in some dojos, higher belts are expected to brake stones with chops, ice breaking etc, soem dojos which are situated near mountains plan almost marathon runs every year, its pretty good conditioning they do. Sparring is generally stand up, like kickboxing almost.

    Im sure the kyokushin karateka's can explain better!
  15. Jordan

    Jordan Valued Member

    :D My opinion is that the full contact fighters use rules and points, where the old classical/traditional fighters use any means possible to win and are training with the REAL fighting champions of old thru there katas. :D
  16. UrAsJ

    UrAsJ New Member

    The "sport" fighters however have real experience in fighting, thus giving them advantage over unproven and uneffective "kata moves".

    Larping will not get you any far. :p
  17. Axelton

    Axelton Valued Member

    Bullshido called. It wants it mantra back.

    Plus, a true traditional dojo will always do kumite.
  18. acer

    acer Valued Member

    In traditional dojo you have contact in the head but in kyokushin,no :confused:
  19. Moosey

    Moosey invariably, a moose Supporter

    To be honest, I could take or leave knockdown kumite. I'm not sure it's particularly healthy from a brain injury perspective to be consistently knocked over by an impact to the head. What I do admire is the tough physical conditioning and focus on high-impact training in kyokushinkai clubs.
  20. Llamageddon

    Llamageddon MAP's weird cousin Supporter

    That's a good point. What would be good to do (if you reckon you could handle it) would be Japanese police force Shotokan. That stuff's mental.

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