thoughts on this video (warning CHI)

Discussion in 'Tai chi' started by airweaver, Apr 25, 2008.

  1. Fire-quan

    Fire-quan Banned Banned

    Well I tell you what, you go with that then - you look me in the eye, so to speak, and tell me how long and bitter your path has been, and how much ridicule you've eaten.
     
  2. Fire-quan

    Fire-quan Banned Banned

    Well, if you want to compare the two - then that's up to you. There's a difference between unbalancing someone - which is pretty much my main speciality - and this thing where people punch you, or you touch them and they bounce up in to the air in the fakest way imaginable. If you want to believe that's real - it's no business of mine.

    I saw a Chinese guy here in Manchester, must have been 80 years old, and he had three thai boxers punching him the stomach - one of whom was Sandy Holt - famous champion from these parts - who hurts his wrist punching this old geezer. Now that was an amazing thing to see - but no one flew up in to the air in a really, obviously fake manner.

    I mean, really, obviously, fake like the guys in these fake "energy" videos.

    Hell - we've all done amazing things I should think, and most of us know they were due to physics. But at some point, it's simply a matter of belief.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2008
  3. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    I am drawing no comparison and utterly refute "energy" throws.That WAS my point unbalancing is an art in itself BUT the uke MUST be unbalanced no ridiculous leaping back etc. In practical techniques the unbalancing must be accompanied by striking.
    And you must be able to execute the techniques on anyone who may ask/or attack. All else is supposition.

    regards koyo
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2008
  4. Fire-quan

    Fire-quan Banned Banned

    Well then is the video of the guy getting punched in the stomach only for his attacker to jump backwards fake, or not?
     
  5. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    Moving in on a punch before he can focus the blow will negate much of it's effect BUT ,make him leap back? I think not.I would prefare to side step it.
    Even if you side stepped it and hit him directly in the face.. he is going down like a sack of potatoes NOT leaping backwards.

    So FAKE.


    REGARDS KOYO
     
  6. Fire-quan

    Fire-quan Banned Banned

    Well - then we're in agreement! I thought you were saying it was real. By bad...
     
  7. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    In our empty hand techniques we always assume that a knife may "appear" so we tend to execute techniques even against an empty hand with this in mind.

    So you can imagine my reaction to "receiving " a blow that should be blocked/redirected or better still pre-empted.

    Bottom line .It is the over-reacting as though they had received an electric shock that leaves me cold.

    regards koyo
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2008
  8. jorvik

    jorvik Valued Member

    Well I don't believe you can do that, a knife is very different from an open handed attack....and Sorry, if you don't believe it is, then you are dead already.
    You can't really block it or avoid it.....and I know that there are wonderful stories of folks who can and did:rolleyes:.but a couple of inches of steel will do the job.folks like to talk about the police or the military but they don't really do martial arts..against an enemy they use weapons, pure and simple..and they go in mob handed.....there are a few folks writing today about the realities of violence, folks like tony blauer.but always you have to question.
    Look at Morihei Ueshiba or any of his students, how many fights did they have?.how many MMA tournements, NONE.so does that mean they didn't know their stuff. In my eyes there are two ways to go with this stuff you either challenge everything classical and go the MMA route or you have a little respect for the masters..............could Butterbean snot Chiba or Saito.....and if he could do we then call him Butterbean Sensei...or can they rest on their laurels ( and I don't mean those stories of their grateful students or random unsubstantiated claims by said students)

    I am prepared to believe , or at least give leeway to some of these folks Tai-Chi, Yellow bamboo etc.because the classical guys haven't walked their talk either.lets get Chiba into a MMA tourney.and see how **** hot he is..........or lets leave it and believe the stories:)
     
  9. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    I live in Glasgow the "knife capital" of Scotland.I worked for twenty plus years with gangs and have seen enough idiots with knifes to last a lifetime. I have scars on my arm from one confrontation.

    The techniques at an advanced level are almost all pre-emptive.I HAVE WALKED THE WALK and find no reason to attempt to convince you if this. Indeed the tone of that last post is so imature that I hesitated to answer it since it was in responce to an exchange between myself and another.Nor do I need to "make a choice" since I have been cross training for decades.

    I shall continue to believe in my training and experience you are free to believe in what is shown in those videos. That should leave us both happy.

    regards koyo
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2008
  10. unfetteredmind

    unfetteredmind Valued Member

    Is this a p****ng competition? My path hasn't been bitter and ridicule is what you make of it. I choose to make little of it. If that irritates you some more well you know as well as anyone, that's nothing to do with me.
     
  11. Rebo Paing

    Rebo Paing Pigs and fishes ...

    Oh boy .. another knife 'expert' ... except knowledge and "belief" are two different animals when discussing something as pragmatic as playing with knives. Belief is based on conjecture and extrapolation of individual (and probably faulty) reasoning ... the possession of which does not make one an 'expert'.

    Yah ... "wonderful stories".

    And your experience is? Mirror mirror ... (deja vu).

    Ok ... now you're REALLY showing your ignorance. History records plenty of fights ... MMA didn't exist back then ... oh my do I have to explain this?

    Do what you want, believe what you want.
    I can think of one thing that is worse than a compliant "uke" ... and that's a person who "believes" their way into expert opinion ... except it's not, it's just bulls wallop :eek:.

    N.B. Look ... I'm certainly no knife "expert" either ... in that I've never actually cut someone outside of training in the army. I have been "cut" twice myself outside ot training ... a nick on the throat and a two inch cut on my right tricep ... and both times I just about shat and pee-ed myself ... which is why opinion based on "belief" is such a real ****serr.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2008
  12. Moi

    Moi Warriors live forever x

    I've seen someone disarm an attacker with a knife in the most improbable way. He kicked it out of the attackers hand.

    I've also seen someone disarmed by a good kick in the nuts. (by a policeman)

    Best was an attacker that split his hand open pulling the lock-knife.

    Knives aren't always a winner:p
     
  13. fatb0y

    fatb0y Valued Member

    I seen someone kick a knife from an aggressors hand - AND catch it.
    It was awesome.
     
  14. CKava

    CKava Just one more thing... Supporter

    It's perfectly possible for someone with a PhD in physics who also happens to buy into something to declare something in line with physics when it's not. Physic students are also usually no better equipped than most other people to judge things like body mechanics... very few spend any actual time researching the physical capabilities of the human body.

    Regardless though if they actually did say that the reactions displayed are in proportion to the amount of force possible from the movements the guy makes then they are very bad physicists or are demonstrating very poor judgement. People are running away and falling over after quickly touching an arm and in one or two cases they seem to react without any discernible contact... that's physically impossible it would require a force unknown to physics. Which would make the demonstration entirely inconsistent with physics.

    You really don't need a physics degree to work all this out though. Anyone with sense can see that the reactions are not appropriate with the physical reality.

    As for the theory that everyone just wants to deny incredible things are possible that's simply not true. Look at parkour videos or the guy that climbs up the skyscrapers completely unaided... there are incredible things in those videos that people might think are beyond the limits of humans but clearly are not. The thing is though in such videos you can tell that the laws of physics are still at work... peoples bodies perform incredible feats but watching it you can see that such feats are physically possible. The reason people are skeptical of videos such as the one at the start of this thread isn't because it shows something incredible it's because it shows something clearly exaggerated and inconsistent with the physics of the real world.

    You're friends with Jean Claude Van Damme???
     
  15. Fire-quan

    Fire-quan Banned Banned

    There's an interesting blog discussion somewhere - I read it a while back - between two guys talking about knife attacks - both were instructors. Very interestingly, one had had a series of knife fights, including two that he classed as "assasination attempts" they were that serious.

    Now, he'd heard the other guy saying things like "No one ever attacks in an over head 'psycho' type knife attack" and "You ALWAYS get cut in a knife fight"... but it turns out this guy HAD been attacked by someone with an over head psycho strike, and he'd also been in a knife fight and never got cut.

    His point, which is pretty valid, is that a lot pf people seem to make up 'rules' about the knife fight you will be in, and yet - how can you do that? What rules? It's like giving people expectations of what will happen - well, what if it doesn't? What if somethign someone told you was against the rules happens, lol?

    My friend and I, when very young, heard an immense crash. Upon investigation - somewhat the worse for wear through drink - we discovered a hole in a fence which led to an overturned car in a garden, bodies covered in blood on the ground, and a white man in a kimono wielding a samurai sword in full samurai war posture, stood over them. We nearly crapped ourselves - esepcially as he then demanded to know if we had been in the car too!

    Now THAT would have been a SERIOUS knife fight - if we hadn't run off, ha ha... But what sticksin my mind is the complete unlikelyness of the event - which in itself can be enough to freeze your brain for a while. "This isn't in the rules!"
     
  16. Fire-quan

    Fire-quan Banned Banned

    No mate - but my path has been bitter, although, I'm not bitter myself - it was exactly the path that I made it - exactly the path I needed. But if anyone's going to stand like a peacock claiming the defence that they nobly face ridicule here for speaking the truth, well, that wouldn't be you - it'd be me, and Krisno - the two people who have been through that. But, I think it's funny anyway, and we don't do that - so what right you have to claim that, I don't know.

    Now that's the end of it, as far as I'm concerned.
     
  17. Shadowdh

    Shadowdh Seeker of Knowledge

    So wait a minute this guy took out a car with a samurai sword... cool... :D
     
  18. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.


    No no no..The CAR did'nt have a samurai sword. Haven't you been paying attention.?
    No wonder I am confused:confused::confused::confused:

    regards koyo
     
  19. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Moved on

    So somebody accidently crashes into a garden and gets hacked to death for mowing down the owners prize petunias. Seems a little harsh to me but then those jaffs are always touchy.

    The Bear.
     
  20. inthespirit

    inthespirit ignant

    The guy was probably just training in his garden when the car came through... I saw a similar thing here, minus guy with sword, and it was more like a concrete wall... made a massive bang
     

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