“thinking is a disability. Mindlessness is a good quality"

But the examples I gave a related to this thread as there Martial Arts people. Becks is not.

 

I was only reacting to people suggesting that the Gracies were poor examples of intellegent MMA practioners. Personally, I think the original statement is flawed for all the reasons other posters have pointed out.

- Matt

 

As someone that grapples, do you find yourself having to consciously evaluate the options more when grappling as opposed to stand up?
I'm not trying to discredit grappling. It just appears that your options are more limited once you are on the ground - perhaps this requires greater tactical thinking?

cheers

 

As stated before by Ikken hisatsu, about muscle memory. For MA's who have not been training long enough when they get into a fight on the street adrenalin takes over and they start to lose fine motor skills and there gross motor skills are performed because of the neuro muscular memory. Though the more you train the better prepared you will be. Correct me if i'm wrong.

 

I think that by "thinking" we mean thinking about a concept or thinking about a technique which would detract from our concetration of the fight.
So it means "thinking" about something rather than concentrating.

So the "thinking" is to be done in training where you master this "motor memory" to perfect your technique, so when it comes to using them your mind is purely concentrating on the fight.

Makes it sound so simple!

 

Not really I consider it comparable as when on the floor with little or no experience I can do what I like to them. The same as with sparring.

If there good then I need to be able to think what I do and how much I commit etc.

 

Thats interesting, but in my opinion its a matter of skill. You are able to "pick apart" new guys on the ground or in sparring but with a skilled person you think. Thats good, but I think there is a higher skill that allows you to do the same to a "good" person as you can with a "new" person. It only makes sense, if you can do it to a new person without thinking, then the only reason you can't with a good person is skill.
I like to think of it like tying your shoes. How often do you have to stop and think about tying your shoes? How often must you consciously think about how hard to pull the strings, how big of a loop to make, etc? Its all because you have done it numerous times in your life, just like fighting. You make mention of a "good" person, but "good" is relative to your own skill.

7sm

 

With respect that is because you know little about grappling. When you are against someone good you have to set things up, and be a technical fighter yes you can speed things up and some moves come off pat as instinst.

These are more signature moves that you spot out of no where but in general grappling is a thinking science and does require an understanding to sus out the other persons stratergy and skill levels.

For example I am a better fighter than I am martial artist when I am doing stand up sparring I am still thinking about what I am doing but I buy the time to think. Yes I fight on instrinct when in the melee of it but during the seconds when I have "brought some time" I then think and assess unguarded areas or a quick combo I want to do. This takes 1/2 a second perhaps but I do still think.

And in real fights I have thought about what I wanted to do but its down to my (I like to think) skill to be able to buy that time when I can get my game togther.

Grappling does when you are against a good person require skill and thought but you have to buy the thinking time when your rolling with someone.

I would be interested to hear other grapplers views on this though as perhaps its just me??????

 

With respect, you know nothing about my skill or knowledge, I have actually spent quite a bit of time grappling, so lets not make blanket assumptions.

I was refering to "thinking" not on a strategy level, but on a technique by techniue level. Of course you must think and figure out your oponents strategy and skill level, that (I thought) went without saying. What I was saying is the on a technique level, you really shouldn't have to think through the technique, it should be ingrained in your muscle memory. That was my point, not that grappling was a non-thinking system, which is far from what I said. I think fighting in general is a very heavy thinking science, I was refering to in the heat of the battle on a technique level, having to think through each technique will cost you.

7sm

 

Perhaps the more experience you get, the less you need to "think" and the more you get from "intuition"...

 

You did not make what level you were talking about clear so I posted on what you said - hard to read intention and minds over the net. You need to think strategicly and to set up moves when against someone of comparable stratergy. Not the execution of the move as I said by the set up of it.

This is as prevelant if not more in grappling (for me at least) than striking.

 

Personnally I disagree. Top athletes are well coordinated in their activities more than the average joe. Thats why they are better.

While I dont do any team sport, i still know games like basketball, football, or hockey require some sort of strategy play. Now give a same winning play to a team of average joe, and theyll likely screw it up because they dont even have the basics right.

Hockey player probably play with the intent of the play in mind, but they wouldnt think about the basics required by the play. Personnaly, I suck at hockey, and I hardly skate. If someone was to give me a play, id probably think more about skating properly so i dont fall on my butt and not losing the puck in an embarassing fashion than thinking about the play.

Martial art is probably the same. The goal is to win. But how you set out to reach that goal is pretty important. When you have a plan, then your training kicks in.

PS: I shouldve read the whole thread first, because my post is somewhat irrelevant given that people said it already in another fashion.