“thinking is a disability. Mindlessness is a good quality"

A recent article in a Uk newspaper points out that in football 'thinking is a disability'. (original article not availible online for free) Apparently a professor has cracked the secret behind the world’s greatest footballers ,they do not think just act on impulse. Which explains why the most successful players at present such as wayne rooney are not exactly blessed with brains and throughout the history of the game it seems that any form of intelligence is a hinderence.

Could we apply the results of this research to the martial arts?
In wing chun we have drills such as chisao to turn off the mind and just act on impulse, but as apparent not many can successfully achieve this.
Then we have the top ufc/nhb competitors who do ofthen appear mentally challenged but can sure fight when they have to.
So in conclusion this could even explain why mma'ers ofthen win these events who train more 'monkey see monkey do fashion' than wing chunners who have to understand the principles in order to understand the system, which requires a greater deal of intelligence? and thus thinking time...

 

Wu shin - no mindedness. Nice bit by Bruce Lee in "Tao of Gung Fu." Basically means that mind is a hindrance to effortless flow. When you concentrate thought in any one place, it is not free to fill your body or something like that. Lee gives two examples. Like if there's a centipede walking - it can't think about each and every leg while its walking or it will trip. Or there's some Chinese goddess with a 1000 arms, each holding something - if she focuses on one arm, then all the other 999 are useless.

 

I would say that thinking and impulse are two completely different things that go hand in hand, rather than by themselves. Thats why you train, so your routine activity becomes an impulse, or muscle memory. In order to activate that muscle memory (impulse) you have to analyze (think) the scenario, such as an opening in the football defensive line or a punch coming towards your face.

I also agree with eternalrage. Although it doesn't mean that the stupid fighters will always be the best.

 

Another one of my favorite the no-mindedness examples that Bruce Lee gives is about breathing. If you stop and think about the pattern of your instinctive breathing, it doesn't become instinctive anymore. You will concetrate too much on when to inhale and exhale, disrupting the pattern.

 

Must be why I have such an advantage. Many people call me mindless.

Mostly women telling me this though. :love:

 

Vitaly Klischko, reigning HW boxing champ- also known as Dr Klitschko.

Remy Bonjasky, reigning k-1 champ- Was previously a very successful banker.

I think you will find its more to do with less intelligent people being more likely to get involved in sports at that kind of level than someone who has the ability to become a doctor.

and of course they act on impulse- thats no secret that "muscle memory" is what dictates your actions under pressure. intelligence has little to do with it.

 

Uhm, this has been a MA tenet for a VERY long time. It's also an intrinsic part of Taoism. This isn't some great breakthrough, lol.

 

What a goblin

How un educated are you - They win because of ability and training and the ability to fight with naturally fluidity AND to have presence of mind to THINK when the chips are down.

Igor Vovchenchin - ex bodyguard
The Gracie clan - made millions with good non MCDojo training

 

I've got my doubts about the point in the first post myself. But I don't think an ex-bodyguard or the Gracies really are good examples to disprove it.

 

Think while training, not while fighting

I think you should do lots of thinking while training (except perhaps during meditation) and none during actual fighting. MA training is essentially a kind of reaction training--the point of doing the same forms over and over is to ingrain them into your muscle memory so that should the time come you will react automatically. Thinking is necessary during the training process as you will get the most out of forms training if you constantly think about different principles you are trying to incorporate, thinking about an imaginary opponent, thinking about what your qi should be doing, etc. You have to analyze and reanalyze, thinking about the different ways you could practice the same form for speed, power, contrast, etc. If you just keep practicing the same way you always do without thinking about it the form becomes a dead performance of memorized moves--and while it is good to ingrain the movements into your head, you don't want the form to just become something you do without thinking or analyzing. Even in Taiji, where the form practice is often like a kind of moving meditation, proper concentration must be payed to qi flow, contrast, opening, closing, circularity, yin and yang, and much more. If you do all this well, then when the time comes the qi will go where it needs to go automatically, guiding your body in an appropriate and rapid response.

All that aside, however, in an actual confrontation there is absolutely no time to think. You have to just do what your body tells you to do naturally without hesitation. At this point thinking would become a liability. Therefore, you can also incorporate elements into your training for timing and reflexes, teaching yourself to just go for an opening the moment it presents itself without hesitating. Push hands is very good for this since you have to feel the opponents movement and, upon sensing an opportunity to take him off balance, move in without any hesitation. If you hesitate at all he will sense your intention and compensate.

 

Like driving a car..

I'm sure some of you also manage to day dream whilst driving and don't remember consciously driving a section of road. Were you still in control without conscious thought?

 

..and it's an educated argument to name-drop a couple of MMA's with a bit of grey matter?

 

I wanted to add - wu shin is not a state of mindless stupidity. It is not achieved by not having a mind, it is achieved by removing the mind from any position to focus or control the body.

Plenty of Ivy league universities and top 50 ranking universities of all levels - undergrad, graduate, whatever have TMA and MMA clubs. Lots of smart people can kick ass.

 

How are they bad examples - both professionals, athletes, rich from there own hard work, respected in there arts and fields of competition.

Cant see how there bad?

 

I have had fights and had presence of mind to think and react because I was that much more in control of what I do rather than letting the adrenalin and testostorone control me.

 

Yes, why not the original post takes a cheap shot at MMA so I post some educated people who do it.

There are as many thick MMA people are there art other things both MA and non MA related so not sure what your point is?

 

You're describing David Beckham there. He's very clever.

 

Just a note on Sonshu's choice of the Gracie clan. Like them or not, I am happy to conceed that they're bright in my book. They managed to take a modified form of Judo and turn it into a World Wide Phenomenon, turn out a number of solid fighters, and make a lot of money in the process. That's gotta count for something.

Are they rocket scientists? Probably not. But were they shrewd operators. Definitely! Great choice IMHO.

- Matt

 

Eh.!?

Why the discussion about the mental prowess of the Gracies?
I thought this was about harnessing sub-conscious reaction as opposed to conscious evaluated reaction - high intelligence not required, just training and methodology.

 

Because the guy who created the thread posted this in the first post

QUOTE
Then we have the top ufc/nhb competitors who do ofthen appear mentally challenged

My take is you need conscious evaluated actions and reactions in a fight as well as the rest of the package.