Always a favorite boxer of mine since I was a kid. Sonny Liston. Big, fearsome and brooding - built like a mountain. A life full of conflict and controversy until his dying day - which some would say was at the hands of the mob. Two of my favorite quotations attributed to Liston are: In the films the good guy always wins, but this is one bad guy who ain't gonna lose. and I never had a dime to my name before I became a fighter. I never had friends before, or respect. Now when people see me on the street, they turn around and say, Ain't that Sonny Liston, the fighter. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXSJIxIe_AE&feature=related"]Sonny Liston the Night Train - YouTube[/ame] So post up fights or any other anecdotes, info or history - here be the Sonny Liston thread! My first question is: At 2:06 of the thread... the footage of Liston finger wagging someone... anyone know what this was about? Was he laying into a fan? A cop? A reporter? Anyone know what that bit of footage comes from? Note the footage of him training across from a young Foreman at 3:22 and then at 3:40 is Liston absolutely wrecking Floyd Patterson in one of their two encounters. Both encounters were hard going for Patterson. You boxing fans who are up on your history will know that Patterson was a Cus D'Amato (Mike Tyson's original trainer) fighter and for a time Patterson wouldn't fight Liston as he was he was your archetypal mob owned fighter and Cus D'Amato wanted no part of that. D'Amato was known to carry a handgun in his pocket at all times because he so often refused to deal with the mob and feared retaliation.
Famous shot that i always used to look at with fascination and awe -you can just see the brutality coming to Floyd's head at Mach 9! My favourite Liston anecdote was how he slapped Ali for "running his mouth" and how Ali was genuinely scared of him on the cobbles. Liston was a dangerous man in or out of the ring and a truly enigmatic character - a real life "Clubber Lang"
Interesting shot! It speaks volumes about oldschool training. Many of the old time coaches held that when your opponent starts to roll and duck - it's time to let loose some uppercuts. At 6'1", 215lbs and with 14" fists... it would be like getting hit by a train!!
Some believe he threw the ALi fights for the mob but ive heard other stories about it. In Thomas Hausers book on Ali, he quoted a source from inside Listons camp saying Liston only trained for three rounds for that first fight and was really overconfident going on. If true it doesn't sound like he was planning to lose. As for the second fight one story is he threw it for the mob, another is that the Black Muslims had threatened to shoot him if he won. I don't know if theres any truth to either story.
Second fight he got cold cocked. The punch was short, fast and more importantly Liston didn't see it coming The one that gets you is the one you don't see
Interesting shot of Liston and Foreman... who were for a time apparently sparring partners... starts to give you an idea of the relative size of these guys. Which is to say big!
Funnily enough, I was watching the film 'Ali' a week ago and it crossed my mind that when people list the top heavyweights of all time, Sonny Liston rarely gets a mention. And yet he was widely considered 'unbeatable' right up until Ali beat him. I suppose the out-of-the ring controversy about mob connections and so forth is probably why boxing as a sport tends to ignore him, but I think its a major oversight. Whatever he got up to, he was clearly a formidable boxer. Glad you brought this up, Slip.
Agreed - many people will only focus on the names that fit within the norms of pop culture. Ali being one of them. Not that I'm not a fan... but for some reason all the mystery surrounding Sonny Liston drew me in. Enigmatic for sure. Perhaps in a sense one of the archetypal examples of the underdog. From a family of Arkansas sharecroppers he was the youngest son in a family of 25 kids - and by many reports was beat so bad as a kid that the scars on his back still showed decades later... I also think people forget he grew up in pre-Civil Rights era America in the south... a very different social climate than today. So while he was someone you'd not want to cross you can't fight a system designed to keep you down very effectively as one illiterate man. So in my book he truly represents the underdog.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIIx9h7yhaw&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIIx9h7yhaw&feature=related[/ame]
Here are some interesting stats for Liston - Ali. The tale of the tape has Liston's fist as 15 1/2" circumference... jeebus!
The big white fella that towers over Liston at the end of that KO clip is Chuck Wepner (who went on to fight both Foreman and Ali)... man did he get a hard way to go: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB3DhPzA3No&feature=related"]Sonny Liston vs Chuck Wepner - YouTube[/ame]
Here's an interview with Sonny Liston... I'd never seen this. Liston had a strong dislike of the press that went out of their way to paint a bad picture of him. One big dude Liston is so surprisingly he actually has a somewhat quiet and laid back demeanor that you often see in people from the South. Enjoy: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6OJkxv1pyM&feature=related"]Sonny Liston Interview - Rare - YouTube[/ame]
Yeah I've watched that tape so many times and it still looks like he threw the fight. I just don't see Liston getting taken out like that. Hmmmmmm..... thus one of the greatest and longest running controversies in boxing history.
Anyone read any good biographies about Liston? I read the Wiki stuff and he seemed like quite an interesting character. It would be nice to learn a little more about him. I'm sure Hannibal will be along later to shout at me for digging up this old thread
*zzzzz...snort* eh? Wassat? Aaarrggghhhh!!! BEGONE NECROMANCER!!!! As its only 6 months or so old i'll let it slide......
