Not sure if this is what you had in mind, Slip. But I found this interesting: Charley Goldman using early focus mitts to train Rocky Marciano to rein in his wild haymaker-style punching. This pic is from the early 1950s, according to the author of oldschoolboxing.com. The author contends that, in old school, focus mitts are used to work a boxer's defense as well as simply giving them a target. I found that critique odd, as even in my limited training, we used them for offense and defense; I'd assumed that most people did. But this author seems to think that's something that's fallen by the wayside. Judging by the lack of padding on the focus mitts pictured, I think a boxer had better get his evasion sorted quickly. Does this timeline sound right for the inception of the focus mitt? I think I've heard that savate fighters used their boxing gloves, essentially, as focus mitts in training, going back and forth. Stuart
Here you go slip, this is in the spirit of this thread. George Foreman was always known as a killer punch (71 wins, 68 by KO) and attributed some of his power to chopping wood which was first introduced to him by his trainer, Dick Saddler. Foreman continued to keep chopping wood and other types of manual labor as an important part of his physical training until he finally retired from boxing, and when his son George Foreman III was training for boxing he also had his son chopping wood. Obviously it's of some benefit if he was such a big fan.
Sonny Liston was a big fan of headstands to develop neck strength and would work his head in all four directions to toughen it up. This photo is from '62 right before he faced Floyd Patterson and KOed him in the first round to win the heavyweight title. It doesn't say how long he used to hold each side, but apparently he sometimes had people read to him while he did this so it may have been a few minutes or more.
@ap Oweyn Nice post. Yes! That's a great shot of early pad holding. Very very interesting. I'm not even entirely sure of the date of the first use of pads like that. The focus mitt has always been one of my favorite parts of boxing training. I spend enough hours in the day holding them for others that I've really had to give it a lot of thought how to hold, why to hold and all the details... if not... I've seen far too many trainers end up tendonitis in the elbow and horrible shoulder problems from holding the pads wrong. I've always come from the view point instilled in me by one of my boxing coaches (Roy Bennett) that the pad was there to keep you honest. You didn't aim for huge power but more speed and accuracy. Several sizes of mitts makes it a challenge. As well a proper pad holder should not be glued to one spot but moving and stepping as an opponent would. Which is why a pad holder who doesn't understand boxing footwork is next to useless. As for keeping honest... I like to flik a jab out there and catch my man unawares. If he's not versed in combing his hair he will wear it on the nose. That is a great drill to make sure he's not getting slack about his guard or distance. These days there are great options out there for focus mitts. I prefer the very small very light ones me self so that I counter or swat my man as needed at close to real speed. Since I almost never have my guys throwing for power on the mitts I like the smaller lighter ones that require them to focus. I keep the pad just about glued to the side of my head... which is what it's there to represent. None of this holding the pad a mile off programming punching to the side in my man and wrecking my shoulder joint. Great shot you posted. Even the old boxing trainer in that shot still has some guns on him.
@Kuma - Yes man that's what I'm talkin' 'bout! Excellent. The shot of him choppin' wood is something that many Southern boys would know. Or anyone raised on a farm. Straight ahead ass kicker with no way to cheat. It's a brilliant movement for rotational power. I'm sure none of that was lost on Foreman. In that shot he almost looks like the actor Michael Clark Duncan from The Green Mile. But for that matter so does Sonny Liston in your next pic... I guess it doesn't hurt that they're all big, strong as, bald headed black dudes. Though for my money... out of all of them... it'd be Sonny Liston I'd not want to run into on bad terms! lol! That neck move he's pulling is something that is directly out of boxings days when it was more linked with wrestling. Classic drill. The one part of the body most people forget to work. This could easily be added to just about anyones regiment today because I'm sure there's not many doing it. Great posts!
That Sonny Liston exercise is identical to one from Matt Furey's work. Adopt a headstand and work the neck in different directions. It's also something we did in BJJ from time to time (although not so extreme) and obviously a headstand can be found in Yoga too. I've got an old boxing book by Floyd Patterson out today. A couple of good piccies in there.
Here ya go. Floyd Patterson training with a LARGE medicine ball. In the same book he also mentions putting the ball on the floor and rolling on it. Seems very similar to what's being done in this vid? [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMQQDw7xJY0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMQQDw7xJY0[/ame]
Just found a modern picture of the same thing too, this time it's with Kostya Tszyu. I couldn't find a video/picture of Tszyu doing it, but Tszyu is a big fan of improving his hand-eye coordination by wearing an elastic band around your head, tying a tennis ball to it, and punching the tennis ball. This is a video of someone copying his idea though: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZSAGiiWLRQ"]YouTube- Hand-eye coordination training[/ame]
Ricky Hatton likes to use what his camp calls the "Body Belt" rather than sparring all the time. The trainer basically wears a 6 inch thick body protector and focus mitts and Hatton and the trainer continuously throw shots at each other as they train. Hatton says it's the closest you can get to fighting without actually fighting. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udCVvVYLY1E"]YouTube- ricky hatton bag training[/ame]
Patterson's Inside Boxing book is a great one. Indeed. I was going to scan in the picture of him skiing too but thought it didn't really count. Although my old Thai coach was also a ski instructor. Damn he could hold a squat all day.
OLD old school boxing: I know this is a little far back. But I thought this was really interesting for the presence of the piper. Now, perhaps I'm making a mistake by assuming that the two are connected. But let's assume not. (It's easier on my ego that way.) In the Filipino arts, we often train to music. Capoeira obviously does as well. And we've all seen the Rocky movies where Apollo Creed has Rocky training to music to instill a sense of rhythm and flow. So what of it? Is training to music a time-honoured part of boxing training? I would think that it would be. I do believe, wholeheartedly, that it's instrumental (pun not intended, but not regretted either) in developing important attributes in a fighter. Thoughts? Stuart
You also have the music in Thai boxing too (music I can't stand actually ). I've an old martial arts video with Tony Moore (highly graded and regarded Thai and Krabi Krabong coach from the UK) in which he touts the importance of music to training a fighter. How rythme and timing are so important.
Yes many of the BJJ, Sambo, college/freestyle wrestling and even Judo drills cover this. I believe at a point not too far back in history there was a lot more similarity in the ways that wrestlers and boxers trained. To most people these days the two are entirely separate arts... but if you look back not all that long ago there were man crossovers. Very interesting.
yes... and it appears that Floyd Patterson wasn't alone in his training ideas! This position is not far off from the 'supermans' of todays functional strength training... something I get a fair bit of in. I find that these are a lower back saver. Adding in the medicine ball as a fulcrum point will work several areas whether done dynamically or done as a static hold. Lumbar musculature... upper and mid back... proprioception... scapular retraction... core stabilization. Jeez... it's a monster come to think of it!
No way bro. Absolutely valid to consider evidence from this far back. Moreover I'd say it's absolutely necessary for the person truly interested in martial arts to actually go back and make these connections. In a sense laying claim to the history... not perhaps of so much importance for those following east Asian traditions in a sense. Since there is so much out there in terms of lineage and history - but for those who've trained in western martial arts I think it's a really good route to go. And as others have pointed out... in Muay Thai it's a necessary part. Which is something that I've come to really dislike about many of the modern promotions where the music is played from a track... which in many ways defeats the purpose of it. Traditionally the musicians sit ringside and play and the tempo increases as the fight increases. Important stuff for traditional Muay Thai. As of late I've been to several large Muay Thai events run by absolute muppet promoters who've done away entirely with the music. Or worse... have added techno music. They should all be rounded up and summarily executed. For me it was always telling that many of the early black boxers had rhythm down pat. Many made money on the side working as dancers in cabaret type shows. Floyd Patterson was almost as famous for his rope skipping shows as he was for his boxing. With people turning up to his training camps just to watch his rhythm and dance while skipping rope. I don't think rhythm (punching) and counter punching (counter rhythm) can be mastered without having an ear for a beat and timing.
Great thread(sorry Im not contributing much) but on the subject of skipping Sugar Ray Robinson was the man..and Dancing,both of which he said helped his footwork skill in the ring
Can't find it on the web but in his book there is a photo of old school unlicenced nutter Roy Shaw with a 17 stone man jumping on his belly for 'conditioning' I'll try to scan it when i get home.
