Inspired by Blade's recent thread and Moosey's problems with words beginning with the letter J, I thought it might be nice to start a thread where we can vent about those damned kata. So, being a 1st dan for a year now, I have understood what people mean when they call Bassai Dai the forgotten kata. You spend so long doing it, then you leave it to go off and learn other kata, and before you know it you're mixing up Dai with Sho and God knows what else. The Tekkis as well.
As someone who is not a fan of kata I have a question to ask which I think is relevant to this thread. Because there are kata (sayaw) in Eskrima I have found myself learning some of the forms just to teach the students. Do you find yourself learning some of the forms only to never use them again after you have passed a certain grade?
I love kata, but I have issues with Bassai Dai - it got to the point last year where I actively hated it because I never seemed to improve, in fact at one point I felt like I was regressing and couldn't get the simplest bits right. I'm a little more comfortable with it now, but still prefer goju-style katas (saifa, seiunchin). I think Empi is going to become my next bugbear - I have a few joint issues (especially knees and ankles) and Empi really isn't kind on the knees!
Not an issue in my style - we have to perform every kata we've learned for every grade up to the one we're being tested for, even at dan gradings. It has been known for someone to fail a dan grading because their Taigyoku Shodan wasn't up to scratch, even if their black belt katas were fine.
Just for the record, I second Moosey's request No. We constantly do all the kata. There's no point doing them if you're just going to learn them, grade, and throw them away. You have to believe in the reasons for doing kata, and if you do you will practice them all (or at least all the ones you know) Enpi and Bassai Dai are both (IMO) hard katas. Not necessarily to learn (although the both have some fiddly bits) but certainly to improve on and 'perfect'. Especially Bassai Dai. You do it for so long in the various brown belt stages that you think you should have mastered it! I reckon I'm still fairly crap at Bassai Dai, although I have my good days with it. Think I'm much better at Bassai Sho funnily enough!
Remembering long strings of steps and techniques and, once that's done, actually, doing them correctly with power, balance, good technique and strong stance.
And knowing what each move represents - the double blocks near the start of Bassai Dai didn't make any sense at all until we went through the bunkai and tried them out as block/breaks (obviously not full focus when we were working with partners!) I don't see how anyone could perform the kata with the right focus without understanding the bunkai - I couldn't even get close........
If this degenerates into a "kata sucks" thing then I'll just leave it off as per the request. I do think kata itself serves a functional purpose, only that people expect it to give them what they want through mindless repetition or random speculation about the purpose of some strange pose or move. Anyway, with that disclaimer, shouldn't that be, you know, the first thing you learn anyway? I tend to see that as a natural product of paired training when there's a thoughtful, combative mindset being maintained by both parties, and in the absence of that mindset I tend to see kata being a string of halfhearted poses or, for competition, the same thing with tons of tension and screaming and theatrics thrown in. Point being that those who have the capacity and seriousness to attain those attributes tend to bring them to the table rather than gain them, and those that don't, don't seem to find them in kata. Would we agree in saying it's a place to play with and practice those attributes once gained through actually learning them in paired practice and one-to-one teaching?
I did kata in Kenpo some time ago and always had trouble remembering the moves. It was a real struggle. When I left the style, I forgot all my katas before too long. I mean *totally* forgot. As in can't even remember the opening move! The way we do kata in my current style is integrated with "bunkai" or application. My old school just did the kata and then moved on to the next point of interest. When you look at why the katas are designed the way they are you get a better feel for why one move follows another and are more apt to retain, and enjoy, them.
Gankaku! Learned it last year (before I dropped a second karate session for aikido), do it regularly but still haven't got past the "knowing the moves" bit and into "knowing the kata", ie all the movements are technically right but there's no "karate" in them if you know what I mean. After Easter its back to the mother-club and I'll watch some of the other higher grades go through it (and probably be asked which kata I want to learn next...).
ugh, i hate gankaku. had to go along with it a few times when i was training in a SKIF dojo, and i fricking abhor it. gimme a sochin any day of the week plzkthx
@gorillas: because i like kata with solid stances and direct, simple applications, both of which are prevalent in sochin, whereas gankaku is a heavily modified version of an okinawan kata (chinto), mutated so that it now involves spending like half of the form on one leg throwing jumping double front kicks and high side snap kicks. the original is a bit more palatable to me but i've never learned it.
What do you think the reason for the single leg standing is in both chinto and gankaku? Is it meant to be a kick check?I looked at reps of both on youtube and they seemed almost identical, what would you consider to be a typical exemplar of both (got video)?
Learning the Enshin Kataturns out to be oddly difficult even though it shouldn't be. They're very different to the Shotokan-derived patterns of TKD and are throwing me at the moment. Hopefully had a bit of a breakthrough today when I had a bit of time to spend on one. Mitch
