The karate kihon thread!

Discussion in 'Karate' started by Fish Of Doom, Jun 20, 2010.

  1. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    sup guys, i just had an idea that might be interesting

    what i have in mind is to make kind of a repository of information about each style's different techniques (all the different tsuki, uchi, keri, uke, barai, etc), where everyone who wanted would pitch in with what style they do, and mention different waza, and how they were taught to do them, how they've seen others do them or explain them like, or even how they've modified them by themselves, and we could do a list, divided by style, and by technique type (punch, non-punch strike, defensive techniques, kicks, non-kick leg techniques), compilating all the different explanations given throughout he thread, while we discuss them, making questions, offering advice, and generally commenting on the differences, similarities and points of interest of different waza.

    anyone up for it? i wanna do ****o-ryu's jodan age uke first, if you guys are interested in the thread.
  2. Llamageddon

    Llamageddon MAP's weird cousin Supporter

    I'll be happy to chime in as and when, but don't fancy writing an encyclopaedia on the minutiae of the shotokan tsuki right now! Not to say I won't down the line though, obviously...
  3. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    was gonna complain about no one posting, then took to long to write this and saw llama replied :D

    ****o-ryu - uke waza - jodan age uke

    basic technique:
    the arm that will execute the technique passes under the other arm (unless it's already low, or you're already comfortable shortening your techniques), at approximately 45 degrees upwards (imagine uppercutting someone on the opposite side of your body), fist closed, fingers facing you, and rises. as the fist reaches approximately the height of your jaw, the forearm rotates, finishing raising the arm, and extending it slightly forwards. your arm ends up with the fist aligned with your centerline a little above your head, and about four fists out in front, fingers facing away from you, but not fully, with the wrist slightly adducted (thumb pulled towards the crook of the elbow), and the arm around 45 degrees from full extension.
    in terms of body mechanics, it is between the tsuki and gedan barai in trajectory (rounder than a tsuki, straighter than a low block), and very similar to yoko barai/tettsui uke (as seen in heian/pinan sandan and godan, bassai dai and the kosokun/kushanku series), but done higher, and following a straighter path. at higher levels of expertise it provides a good foundation for jodan shuto/nagashi uke (as seen in seienchin, heian/pinan yondan, the kosokun/kushanku series and most if not all rohai katas).

    defense: ****o-ryu's jodan age uke is a deflection technique, which means it's rarely used to block, per se, but rather you bridge as you rotate, using the rotation-strengthened extension to push a blow away while you angle your arm to create structure. it is also well suited for irimi, since the movement is aimed forwards as well as upwards. if hit with an overhead blow, the attacker's arm should slide down towards the elbow; if hit with a straight tsuki, it should be slightly thrown off to the side (creating an opening to strike with the same hand that defended). a hikite after the movement can be trained to either grab and pull (preferably upper arm or shoulder), or to throw off the limb that just attacked (by pushing on the upper arm or shoulder), and open up an attack possibility with a close range strike.

    when done as an attack, it is essentially a straighter jodan yoko tettsui, usually aimed at the ear or the hinge of the jaw. the movement can also be altered to work as a mawashi tsuki (just invert the curve the arm follows as it rises)
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2010
  4. shoshinkan

    shoshinkan Valued Member

    proberly better off keeping it simple, in terms of the techniques 'first and basic function' otherwise the thread will go way off line and be very unclear.

    so, as we do it -

    Seito Matsumura Shorin Ryu

    Jodan Age Uke

    1. the blocking arm goes outside the hikite arm
    2. the block is led by the fist and meets the attack
    3. the shoulder stays down, elbow stays down
    4. the impact is made with the 'double bone', not full rotation ie unbendabile arm principle, thumb facing you not out
    5. initially used against straight or round head punches
    6. most commonly used from zenkutsu dachi, or front stance to drive weight into the arm, same arm same leg for mechanical structure and reach
  5. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    sorry, i like walls of text :p

    so, anyone else wants to join in? anything is fine, even just tips you've been given for particular movements.

    c'mon people, let's keep the karate forum a bit more alive
  6. GaryWado

    GaryWado Tired

    Hi Jim,

    On no. 4, when you say thumb facing you and not out - how far in front of your head do you have your blocking arm?

    Reason I ask is that our Jodan Ukes are performed with the forearm above the head (bicep next to ear (ish)). In this case the knuckle of our thumb/hand joint is facing downward.

    I know some styles have their age ukes in front of the forehead - does yours, and if so, does this mean your fingers (of the blocking arm) are facing the floor?

    Amazing how difficult it is to describe something we do every day.

  7. afhuss

    afhuss Valued Member

    add video as supplementary explanation? Just understand we are not masters so lets try not to blow up people's submissions if/when anyone uploads/links them.
  8. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    for ****o age uke: [ame=""]YouTube- Pinan Nidan ****o Ryu[/ame] 0:20 to 0:24, courtesy of sensei iwata genzo(genzou?)

    won't get a much clearer example than that :p
  9. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    Age Uke - Upward Receiver

    Basics - two handed version.

    1. Starting position left hand fully extended straight in front of you, hand open, palm down, finger tips at eye height. Right hand clenched into a fist at hip, palm upwards.
    2. As left hand withdraws right hand thrusts upwards across the body diagonally with a clenched fist, right palm facing right biceps, up to the height and in front of the left shoulder. The extended left hand that is withdrawing remains outside the extending right arm (very important) and by this time should be about 30cm from the left hip with the fist about vertical.
    3. From being in line with the left shoulder the right fist now leads an outward upwards rotation of the right forearm, taking the palm to a facing outwards position with the largest knuckle plumb in line with the top of the head. The arm should extend slightly to add power to this so that the finished arm position should be an an angle of over 90 degrees at the elbow joint. The forearm should be at least 10cm away from the head at its nearest point (inside arm at the elbow joint). The right forearm itself should be at about a 45 degree angle relative to the horizon. The left hand continues its palm upwards rotation as it draws to a resting position palm up in a fist on the left hip.

    Most commonly used effectively in staggered leg stances.

    In this sequence the right arm can be used for a number of purposes, and at a range of different heights, but for me the most important thing is the bit I have not described - the movement of the left arm to its extended position - that's what you will use to divert any serious incoming attack at head height.
  10. Kuma

    Kuma Lurking about

    This is a great example of how we train jodan uke in Kyokushin:

    [ame=""]YouTube- Kyokushin Blocks - Seiken Jodan Uke[/ame]

    As far as execution, my group likes to "punch" with the block rather than just raising it up there to get a bit more forward momentum. We're big on koshi as well, so as the blocking arm comes across the body the part of the hip on that side moves slightly forward with it. From here I like to think of pulling back into hikite as where I get most of the power as the blocking arm strikes upwards with a snap of the hips. It's more of a whipping motion than anything.
  11. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    as far as i can see, it's pretty much identical to the ****o one. interesting
  12. Kuma

    Kuma Lurking about

    The way my group currently does it was actually influenced by Shorin Ryu, specifically Shinzato Sensei's method of koshi.
  13. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    very interesting. shorin's use of koshi is very neat. i myself particularly like matsubayashi ryu's koshi movement (at least how i've seen it demonstrated by jim sindt).
  14. righty

    righty Valued Member

    I have a quick question regarding jodan age uke and other blocks if you could be so helpful.

    Does 'jodan age uke' refer to the block (or receiving) itself, or the general movement? For example, if someone used the movement and mechanics of jodan age uke for something other than receiving a strike (blocking) would you still call it 'jodan age uke'? I hope this at least vaguely makes some sense.
  15. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    jodan age uke is a kihon movement. what you apply the principles of that movement for is something else entirely, which may or may not look like a kihon jodan age uke. i'd say it's a jodan age uke if you (figuratively) do it as a jodan age uke
  16. afhuss

    afhuss Valued Member caveat off Fish, an advanced idea behind jodan uke in GoJu Ryu is to use it as a strike. This is often used as bunkai. As far as nomenclature, we typically use jodan uke as a generic term for any high block, and age uke for what we term a rising block. Anyway, my .02 yen.
  17. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    yeah, actually the jodan (high) is kinda redundant, so it's normal to call this one just age uke (rising reception)
  18. Kuma

    Kuma Lurking about

    You'll see "kote uchi" referred to a lot of forearm sttrikes. The beauty of karate is once you learn the basic mechanics of uke waza you'll learn all the strikes associated witth them. Seiken soto uke and tettsui gammen uchi is a similar example.
  19. GaryWado

    GaryWado Tired


    Can we post about any particular technique at any time or do we wait for Jodan Uke to be finished first?

    Also, can we post a link(s) to external websites to explain our chosen topic, rather than just plagiarising most of its content?

    Or is that not in the spirit of things?

  20. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    any technique you want, any explanation you want, with or without links. feel free to use whatever resources you want to

    EDIT: of course, if you feel like clarifying anything from your sources, or providing an alternate explanation, please do so too

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