Hello all, I'm sure most people on the Tai Chi board will agree that standing practice is important to TaijiQuan practice. Personally, I practice "Taiji" 3-Circle QiGong for my standing practice. My main focus is developing leg strength, body alignment ,soft power and deep abdominal breathing. At the moment, I stand on average for 20 minutes per session, twice a day. Once in the morning, at about 7am, and once in the evening, at about 8pm. I've been doing this for about 9 months now. Before then, I was just doing about 10 minutes at each TaijiQuan session I attended with my teacher. I'm interested in hearing the opinions of others here on the subject of standing practice. What methods do you practice? What do you feel you get out of it? How long have you been practicing for? Many regards, Yin-Yang Boxer
hi You remembered me to incorporate the 3 Circle standing Qigong again in my daily Taiji routine. I used to do it for 15 minutes and it was really heavy to do. I use to have more problems with mental concentration than with physical endurance. I must try that Qi gong today again. BY
Hello hegu, Like everything, it takes time to build the stamina to hold the position softly for long periods. As always, the key is practice. It's definately well worth getting back into. Many regards, Yin-Yang Boxer
i hope my friend sam posts on this ... he stands for along time every day and has really found something from it ... he has been doing it for years now ... come on sam sam the standing man! Chris
Hello middleway, I look forward to hearing from Sam (joins in the chanting). While we wait, do you stand? If so, what method do you use? Many regards, Yin-Yang Boxer
Recently, I've started to do a lot of standing. Mainly the same 3 circle Qigong that you practice YYB. I've tried practicing some San-ti and heaven-man-earth Qigong, however at the moment, I get some iffy feelings from them at the moment, though I intend to go back to them at a later date when I have progressed further with 3 Circle. James
hi all, Yeh i do stand often. I stand San Ti normally. Mainly i use standing as a method of softening the body. I also do the Huang Fan Gong method quite often. Cheers Chris
hello, i've heard some people say that standing is for people to lazy to do forms but i like it. much easier to concentrate on getting posture right standing still. then take that to the form, feed back to standing. all good. also like adding shi li movements for more strength training. peace, timo
Standing Practice is Essential Hi, My teacher - 5th generation Wu Style Master Henry Cheng has told us that real martial skill can not be developed without standing exercizes. Wu Style in particular has 24 "Dzong" or "Stake Standing" sets. Most are static poses, while some are simple cycling movements involving weight shifting between the two feet. When my Master was taught, they had to do Dzong daily for three years before even proceeding to the form. He insists that real martial skill is impossible to develop by doing the form alone. Hope this helps, Tim Ash
Standing is important, but so is moving. And so is moving quickly, dynamically & explosively... The other side of the "standing" coin is that some "internal" artists do genuinely forget to train up their reflexes, quick-twitch muscle responses and cardio-vascular fitness. I've met a few who have trotted out the myth that "the less that is happening externally, the more that is happening internally" as some kind of catch-all mantra to excuse certain aspects of physical laziness, such as not wanting to get out of breath. Also - I'm sure there have been plenty of skillful martial artists who have never even heard of standing. It's great - but not that great.
Please excuse the intrusion, I am an itinerant browser from the silat forum. Yes I agree. Maybe so ... It's either great ... or not that great. It can't be both. There is one thing related to standing that seems to be forgotten in this discussion and that is standing benefits the cultivating and recognising of state. There is a state or a zone that one enters when fighting the absence of which is a serious disadvantage, just as there is a zone or state that a successful salesman experiences where they just know they're going to clinch the deal. The extension of this of course is the question as to what exactly is the figting experience of people who profess to teach an art of combat? Necessarily an art of combat conveys principles in response to the need to solve a perceived tactical problem. Usually a style will have a set of ideas on how to deal with various perceived possibilities including ranges and counter styles e.g. how to deal with a grappler, a knife attack, a kicker etc. The advantage of cross-training is that one can choose the strong points of style to present a solution. One problem unique to these relatively safer days is that any searcher should have some doubt that a lot of these solutions are entirely untested and therefore potentially dangerous for those who believe they have a workable method. This belief pattern is particularly dangerous because technique is only a small proportion of the make-up of the surviving fighter. My opinions only FWIW, Salam, Krisno
Hello Kembang Alas, Thanks for popping by You make some interesting (and valid) points. I'm interested, does Silat have standing methods? If so, what are they like? Many regards, Yin-Yang Boxer
Does Silat have standing methods? Hello Yin Yang Boxer, silat is a generic term that covers thousands of styles throughtout SE Asia and in particular (from my point of view ) the arts of the Indonesian archipelago. I am Javanese, but I am aware that there is some Chinese influence in my family. It is my belief that historically there has been a strong cross-cultural mix in the silat world from the CMA universe and vice-versa. From my perspective Taici, Patkwa, Sing I, Kuntao, Cimande, Brazilian Ju Jitsu and Setia Hati are all different styles of silat with overlapping ideas. Concepts and principles such as kosong (empty) and isi (full) for example is shared by both. Other ideas such as inspired movement meaning movement that is motivated by body intelligence and not by conscious thought expounded by internal arts have parralels in the ideas of gerak nurani. While I practice standing because of the influence of two of my teachers from the past (Silat Sing I and Taici), I am not aware of any other silat perguruan where stance keeping (as practiced in internal CMA) is part of the curriculum. Salam, Krisno
Hi Krisno, I don't disagree with you. I tend to view my Taiji, Xingyi, Bagua and even my Silat and Eskrima training as all part of one bigger thing. I love the Silat Kuntao work of Willem DeThouars and Bob Orlando. When I teach Taiji, I incoroprate any idea that works to help people develop as fighters. I've seen and been involved in real violence in my life and know about what works and what a fighter needs. I try to develop xin (spirit) first of all and get students to attack each other and hit each other with a degree of force and teach them how to get out of un-helpful flinch responses. We also incorporate a lot of supplemental training such as repetitive hand drills, stepping drills and partner flow drills as well as our application practice, push hands and linked movement sequences. To me, this is still Taiji. Taiji is just a set of fighting principles - how you teach those principles does not have to be set in stone or bound by tradition. I think Taiji has slipped quite a long way from its martial origins, where SE Asian arts often seem to have remained more vibrant and alive, perhaps through necessity. If standing can't be great AND not that great, maybe it is not that great. At least it needs to be part of a much fuller approach to fighting skills. Standing alone is not enough. Taolu (linked forms) is not enough. Even Standing + push hands + taolu + applications is not enough. Spar, drill, examine, explore, fighting theories, hand methods, stepping drills, conditioning drills, martial rotation / reeling silk, undulation / whipping training, fitness training, bag training... It's all good.
I wrote: TJB wrote: What is this, some kind of a test? I teach full time, so I get to do some quite regularly. I also teach Bagua and we emphasise duration posture holding there a little more - a set can last 2 1/2 hours. What does it matter to you, really, unless you are trying to imply that I don't think standing is all that special because I don't have the stamina to do it myself or something? You don't realise how argumentative and confontational you have become. Why don't you stop objecting to everything I say, purely out of principle? I've actually been managing to get along with people quite well around here lately, maybe that's what is bugging you. You already know my opinion on everything else you just said.
the record is stuck, time to change it eh? oooh did I touch a nerve there then? (holds handbag tightly to chest) roflmao Jkz - Plz Read back through your own last post (perhaps after some deep-breathing... lol) ...and remember that when you point one finger, the other three point back at yourself. I would also humbly ask you to consider whether perhaps getting all uppity is not really a substitute for answering reasonable comments and queries in a discussion forum? Unless of course you don't have a good answer to give...? Can I also suggest that your saying "You already know my opinion on everything else you just said." isn't helpful to others participating in this forum, or particularly accurate btw - it's an assumption; you hardly know me at all really, do you? "Why don't you stop objecting to everything I say, purely out of principle?" again, assumption. Bad habit you got there. I object to many (but by no means all) of the things you say because I consider them innaccurate, narrow, unimaginative and based on assumptions and personal prejudices. The only 'principle' involved for me is that of speaking up about the art I practice in a forum I'm a member of. I'm sorry that freedom of speech isn't part of your agenda, or am I wrong? "What does it matter to you, really, unless you are trying to imply that I don't think standing is all that special because I don't have the stamina to do it myself or something?" More assumption. I asked because I wasn't clear on how much standing you do, that's all. This is a discussion forum isn't it? (Rather than an extension of your home website) You're coming across as very paranoid imo "I've actually been managing to get along with people quite well around here lately, maybe that's what is bugging you." Well, bully for you - how old are you btw?? No, what bugs me, if anything does, is that it requires me to stay away from discussions on this forum in order for that to happen!! I ASSUME (unashamedly) that anybody who disagrees with your personal pov will have to do the same so that you can feel comfortable enough to behave reasonably towards other forum members. Every thread I read on here at present is filled with the same repetitive comments from yourself about your own personal view on Taiji as martial art. I, for one am bored with it. But you grind down anybody who objects or holds an alternative pov until they simply give up. Well sorry m8, not any more - if you don't like it you can do the offward F. Alternatively you can take the "do you realise who I am" ego BS head off and answer the damn questions for a change! Cheers
wow ... getting heated in here !! ha ha ha I think that standing in stillness gives us a basis to understand our movement. Of course we have to be able to stand in stillness first. This is the hard part. Once we can do that then motion becomes something all together more interesting, we know where our movement originated and how it is started. Rather than moving all the time without any real understanding of the 'source' of our movement. This in tern allows us to start moving from different parts or get all parts to move together. Standing in San Ti gives us a point from which to make our mind move our body, from stillness comes the intent to move, comes the movement ... Being still is intimately related to moving ... it helps us to find the essence of our movement Cheers Chris
Here we go again then. Answers to TJB's questions: That's just mystical crap. No they won't - that's just crazy. By that argument, if you just stay in bed all day, you'll get really fit... If you want healthy lungs, have a cigarette... If you want to win friends and influence people, be horrible to them. Here's a counter argument - you will fight exactly as you train. So if you solely train to stand still, move slowly etc. you will never develop speed and fast reflexes. Bruce Lee pointed out that he'd never known anyone train to be an olympic sprinter just by walking. I said: TJB wrote: Yes, it's true. Some do - quite a few in fact. I said: TJB wrote: I do. I wrote: TJB wrote: Yes we are - but SanDiegoTaiChi posted (BOLD mine): I merely pointed out that people who practice other martial styles manage to develop real martial skill without the practice of standing. The statement is, in itself, presumptuous and indicative of "internal arts" snobbery. I get tired of hearing how much better "internal artists" are than everyone else - they're not. I'm not getting at SanDiegoTaiChi at all here - he is only quoting his teacher. OK - well you can go away and get heart disease then if you like, as you are evidently an "internal" purist. Internal and external? Mind and body? Yin and Yang... Oh what's the point? I refer the right honourable gentleman to my earlier answer. And there are no neijiaquan - the term was invented by Sun Lutang. However did poor old Chen Wangting and Yang Luchan manage, bless 'em? Poor Chen stylists - all that jumping about, getting out of breath, firing punches and kicks into the air - left, right and centre. Luckily Taiji has, er hum evolved since then, right? Any martial art makes you healthier if practiced properly. Why do you think so many martial artists are so fit and strong? Except for most of the Taiji ones of course - oh sorry - they're not martial artists are they - they're "Harmonious Lifestyle Technicians" or something... You're the one who turns these discussions into fights, TJB.
