The future of Karate

To all thee karateka out there how do you feel about the future of your own particular style?. I say your own style because i realise there are alot out there and it would be wrong to put them in the same basket.

I think the full-contact karate, like kyokushin and its sisters will be ok. Not very popular in the UK but i think the future is ok.

The more point-sparring karate styles, like wado ryu and shotokan, how do you guys see you future?. From what ive seen of my old club they are struggling for numbers and having a hard time getting competitions going. Also the world karate championships arent as good as they used to be. Are you guys getting this vibe too?

If so then what do you think is the cause? and what would you change to make karate a big name in martial arts again? or do you think it having a big name in the beginning has damaged the art on a whole?.

Im asking this because im concerned. i no longer do karate, i like it but i found it really frustrating the way it was taught.

 

Mcdojo blackbelt factories give alot of karate a bad name nowadays.
Plus for self defence and such people feel that other styles just work better.

I agree with you that the contact karate should be fine for awhile still though.

 

I think there's possibly a lull in people taking up karate at the moment because the "drifters" who just want to take up the next big thing are into UFC at the moment and are taking up MMA for a couple of weeks before quitting as its too difficult rather than karate.

In what sense will kyokushin and its siblings be "ok"? You mean it'll retain its integrity? Grow in membership? Not see a downturn in numbers?

Now the bit that I'm going to try and say without swearing: Shotokan (and presumably wado ryu although I can't back this up with experience) are not "point sparring styles"! I bloody hate the term "point sparring" as today it's synonymous with those American tournaments where people flap their limbs at each other until the referee hands out an arbitrary number of points to whoever has the prettyest gi. Ippon kumite is a training tool! A means to an end - it is not the end in itself! It allows bare knuckle competition including striking to the face without having the competitors permanently scarred. Now whether this is the best way to train, or whether it's better to wrap yourself up in foam rubber and thump each other harder is a different issue altogether and is a difference in philosophy between different schools of MA. But IMHO a good shotokan school does not train you for "points sparring".

 

you mean its got to hit the bottom to come back up.

Yeh i agree, as long as the loyal ones, like yourself stick at it it will be fine.

Do you think the point-sparring will disappear when karates fortunes change? How do you feel about that style of fighting (no-contact) and how it shapes the way karate is being practiced today?

 

agreed. But how many good shotokan clubs are outhere these days?

I say point sparring styles because i did wado and all we ever did was kick and punch thin air. Thats because in sparring we never made contact so there for no need to punch things in training!.

I dont mind ippon kumite, but i think the competition side of it is ruining karate or has ruined it on a whole. You say a means to an end, but it seems it has shaped the way karate is practiced these days.

 

When I first took up karate the kids and adults classes alike were huge I myself have come and gone over the years but since that time the adults class especially has shrunk to only 6 adult members with a few juniors coming up through the ranks.
Now in contrast to the Muay thai club that trains straight after us they are easily 4 times the size of us.
Full contact styles MMA and all the rest are well catered for nowadays its televised and I may speak for my area alone but you can't turn a corner for want of a new gym.

I think people just look at stereotypes when it comes to the more 'traditional' styles of karate and decide that hitting a bag full tilt and going all out trumps parading across the room doing basic work,
I think too many people take things at face value and don't care to do the digging which consequently has led to a quiet period in karate.
The so called point sparring styles will always have a future competitons and courses within the association we're affiliated with take place often I can't speak for everyone other association in that respect, things just aren't shouted about as much. Us humble karateka

 

Styles like Shotokan will always be around. Mainly because however hard it may be to find them, there are traditional clubs out there that stick to what the art is really about, and not training just to be able to ponce about in polystyrene armour and whatnot.

There may be peaks and troughs in membership rates, but the people who really want to learn, improve and excel will always be there, regardless of how popular the art is to the masses.

As we say so much on here, it's not the Martial Art that matters; it's the Martial Artist.

I'd also like to echo Moosey. When we do 'point sparring' we may not be going for brain damage inducing attacks, but we are going for a real target with a real attack. We do sometimes do sacrifice moves, where we will take a blow to get a counter, and we wont just flap our limbs and hope for the best.

It seems that alot of people mistake a controlled attack for non-contact sparring!

Here's an example of what acceptible kumite can be like:

A while back, our club had two Japanese karate-ka. The club was doing freestyle kumite with no attacks to the face. These two karate-ka were going at it, and one of them executed a great kick and completely misaligned the other's jaw. Our sensei exclaimed that he said 'not to the face!' and the Japanese dude replied with 'it wasn't', pointing to the side of the head and neck.

Now that's real Shotokan!

 

Yeh interesting. i agree with what some of you say about the whole mma/MT boom being a little faddy at the moment.

But that could lead to its down fall much in someways as it did karatei.e. mcdojos.

If you could change anything about your current training i.e more/less kata, more contact, more pad work, what would you change?.

 

Maybe just a little more freestyle Kumite, but other than that I have no problems with any of it. I'm a lucky one

 

Much less kata, maybe monthly or something would be ok! Replace all the kata time with padwork and kumite.

More hitting things, less not-hitting-things.

 

Have you read anything on iain abernethy?

Hes the guy who applies all the grappling methods from the katas. Its interesting stuff. I think if karate was done in the way he does it, kata would seem much more interesting. Non of this ''go away and learn it yourself'' rubbish. Grappling is a big part of karate that has been left out.

I know karate classes have bunkai, but unless you do it in a sparring fasion often its not as effective. I think karate should look at this as a whole. Thats what bugs me about it, theres so much there that you dont learn.

 

oh yeh i know if you do some work on your own and come up with your own interpretations of kata maves thats fine. But unless you do them in class in some kind of sparring environment its never going to be that usefull.

I have nothing against kata myself, i used to like doing them.

 

I've got quite a few of Mr Abernethy's books and think he's done a great job of getting karate people thinking '"outside the box". But I think that judo and jiujutsu techniques can be taught as a standard part of karate training - as part of the "basics" - without necessarily refering to kata. The lack of grappling work in most karate classes isn't a lack of "looking at the kata" - it's a simple lack of training the grappling techniques. I think it's a case of different methods suiting different people and I don't ever see myself becoming a kata enthusiast.

 

I think Karate will be fine but I actually think the styles that will die will be the Kyokushin/Ashihara etc styles because they are competing with your Muay Thai schools, which to the average MMA guy are seen as being that much more hardcore so when the MMA fad dies off a bit (and I'm sure it will) competition within those full contact styles will become fierce and the Karate based styles will almost certainly lose out. Styles like Shotokan, Wado Ryu, Isshin Ryu etc are about more than competition and as such have a much wider profile of potential members. Not many 50 year olds are gonna want to fight full contact, but they may well want to train in an MA. Tae Kwon Do (ITF) is still the MA of choice in that category but by the day you can see its credibility as a fighting art falling away, its only a matter of time before it finds itself as the new Tae Bo (just my opinion, dont throw a tantrum and inadvertently pee your pants over it).

So in summary I think in general Karate will remain healthy, but the fat will undoubtably be getting trimmed.

 

Karate is not the single MA to rule them all.
Neither is Judo.
Neither is Aikido, nor any other do.
To be complete you have to do more than one MA.
I'm happy doing my Karate.
The classes are fine, and sometimes it's even crowded!

 

Knockdown Karate

With the explosion of MMA in the US I am sure more people will be demanding full contact training as they should. I hope we can see more knockdown karate schools. Kyokushin with face punches would be an incredible art certainly comparable to Muay Thai (props to Andy Hug and Filho). I hope we can see a future where "masters" can no longer hide behind a veil of mystery when people can watch TV and say "Wow! I don't think spending spending hours in front of a mirror throwing front kicks or compliant partner drills will ever prepare me for that." I do not want to start a sport vs traditional thread but its the truth. More pad work, more boxing style punches, pretty much everything everyone else said.

As for Kata, I hope most are either revised or done away with. A horse stance leads to a kick in the balls plain and simple and chambered punches equal fist in the face. I think kata can be benficial in the same way shadow boxing is. The problem is if you concentrate entirely on kata and if the katas themselves are dated. I would like to see upright stances, hands by the head, shin roundhoses thrown in katas. While finding hidden grappling in kata is interesting, why not just train grappling?

I hope all karate will one day look like this http://youtube.com/watch?v=RMjGQk-k2ZA

Daido Juku=best karate style ever I don't care what anyone says, its undeniable. They knee to the groin! Use face punches! Train judo and jiu jitsu! Full Contact!