The Birth of Jeet Kune Do and How it Grew Into the Ultimate Fighting System

Discussion in 'Jeet Kune Do' started by ladywarrior, Jun 18, 2011.

  1. ladywarrior

    ladywarrior Valued Member

    Did anyone see Sifu Harinder Singh's 6 page article "Roots of Combat" covering the evolution of Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do in the July 2011 issue of Black Belt magazine? It provides a very complete story of Jeet Kune Do's birth and subsequent growth into the ultimate fighting system. I can't wait for Part two in August !

    I don't think Black Belt has ever said that any martial arts was the ULTIMATE fighting art :)

    "How Jeet Kune Do Became The Ultimate Fighting Art ! " -- Black Belt Magazine, July 2011.

    Check out Black Belt's youtube video they recently posted.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WArRZOO39SU&feature=youtube_gdata_player"]YouTube - ‪Jeet Kune Do + Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu + Kina Mutai Master Kicks A** at Black Belt Magazine!‬‏[/ame]
     
  2. focused_rage

    focused_rage Valued Member

    finally the recognition JKD deserves.

    and calling it ultimate is the best to describe it as JKD's whole reason for existence is to be the best.

    blending from other arts to make one solid fighting style for any one to use at any time in any situation,
    one cant go wrong with JKD

    so eat that Krav maga :p
     
  3. february

    february Valued Member

    JKD "the ultimate fighting art"?

    Hmmmmm.
     
  4. Simon

    Simon Moved on Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    That word again, 'ultimate'.

    JKD's whole reason for existence is to be the best. This is wrong. JKD is a vehicle only, a means to get you from one place to another. Being the best is down to the individual. If you lose a fight does JKD fail, or does the individual fail?

    I am surprised to see that new school of JKD is trying so hard to justify it.
     
  5. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    If you believe that there is such a thing as an ultimate fighting system, I can only assume you've only been exposed to that one system.

    In my experience, it's the sign of a novice.
     
  6. february

    february Valued Member

    Everyone has something to sell. Some camps do it better than others.
     
  7. Simon

    Simon Moved on Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Very true. JKD will all to easily end up the new Ninjutsu though, all arguing about who has the correct lineage.

    If asked I will always say JKD forms a large part of what I do, but I never use the term in any advertisments. Best to leave your boat at the waters edge, rather than carry it once across the other side I think.
     
  8. february

    february Valued Member

    Completely agree. To a tee the best JKDers I know have the same attitude (which often results in them being shunned by the elite for "not doing JKD").

    At the moment the JKD scene is infested with LARPers, fanboys and non-fighters. I can't see that changing anytime soon.
     
  9. focused_rage

    focused_rage Valued Member

    so are you openly saying that Dan Inosanto is a lier? because in this interview this is what he said and i have herd him repeat it.
    now remember he is the only living person that Lee gave the right to instruct JKD to and had allot of personal training time with him.....

    "Jeet Kune Do is the ultimate, complete martial arts system, since it can use any of the most economical & effective techniques available today in the martial arts, regardless of style; it addresses all the ranges combat can occur (blunt/edged weapons, kicking, boxing, trapping/clinch and grappling); and the way that a fight can mutate in seconds, for example, going from empty hand, to against a weapon, to mass attack (many opponent fight), to the ground in a matter of seconds. Realistic experience with both the flow through the ranges of a fight and the mutations of a fight is essential."

    ~ Dan Inosanto

    Maybe some training in Torrance CA, under a real JKD practitioner is what you need before ever claiming you know any thing about JKD

    just a personal thought

    btw JKD is all about becoming the best being the ultimate you/martial artist its why we blend from other arts to take what is best and most effective in a fight.

    Oh and as for losing a fight thats all part of the learning expedience, i never said losing never happens.

    Study, train hard under a real Jeet Kune Do instructor then speak.
    if you don't you are only failing JKD and representing the teachings and guidelines of Jeet Kune Do all wrong and only misleading another person to jump off that boat before they even see land.
     
  10. Simon

    Simon Moved on Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Hmm, lots of assumptions there.

    First off I have served my time in JKD and yes, it was under a good instructor. Blending from other arts, yep done (am doing) that too. So hopefully that clears that up.

    I like JKD, it forms a large part of what I teach now, I am just not stuck in the "ultimate" lots of people claim JKD is. I have said on other posts that I do more (am more) JKD not than when I actually studied it.

    As for calling Dan Inosanto a liar, well that is a foolish statement and putting words into my mouth. I respect Dan, but do you think the JKD he does not is exactly the same as when he trained with Bruce? I doubt it. More exposure to Muay Thai, the incredible athletic prowess of the top MMA guys, increased knife crime and in the US probably more gun crime.

    As for moving through the ranges, sparring multiple opponents, edged weapon training etc, that is not exclusive to JKD.
     
  11. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    The problem with JKD as Inosanto describes it is that is can't really be taught. It's a philosophy that is designed to transcend style.

    As far as I'm concerned, if you go to a JKD class, you aren't doing JKD as Lee defined it.
     
  12. Simon

    Simon Moved on Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    I think you raise a good point and thats the reason I say I do more JKD now. JKD should not have a syllabus or a grading system.

    How can you learn JKD, when there is no JKD to learn?

    A Karate guy goes to a Judo class and also gets a few boxing lessons off of a mate. Hey, that is JKD.
     
  13. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    No-one is - only Bruce did HIS JKD...that is the whole point.

    Guro Inosanto himself has stated that the Jun Fan is less needed nowadays and that you can make your own way in JKD with what is effectively an MMA base. And as Dan was the one who pretty much gave us JKD these days then I will go with that.

    Bruce himself said to Leo Fong, “With your boxing skills, learn a little grappling, learn how to kick, learn some trapping and you will have the ultimate.” Now that is a different prescription than others received, but it suited Leo. Bremer was different again as was Wong - yet all are JKD

    My bias is definitely to the Inosanto (or "Concepts" if you insist) lineage, but each must find their own way.
     
  14. Kwajman

    Kwajman Penguin in paradise....

    I think to be able to call anything the 'ultimate' one has to train in a variety of arts, even all of them to be able to know enough about them to declare one or another the 'ultimate martial art'. It'd be like saying one specific car is the ultimate or one girl is the ultimate, unless you're talking about any number of hotties from Australia. they...just...leave...me...speechless....sigh.....
     
  15. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    It is also worth remembering JKD is a process not a product - it is a search for continual improvement and development, whether that be immersion in a whole discipline or just liking a technique and nicking it!

    I will also add that Singh is an incredible practitioner - He has great flow and wicked speed!
     
  16. focused_rage

    focused_rage Valued Member

    PFS is a separate system from JKD and is not shunned.

    Sikal is a separate system and not shunned

    this is an example of the 2 top figure heads in JKD today that developed there own system there personalized style and neather Dan Inosanto or Paul Vunak have beens shunned.

    in REAL JKD they inspire you to make your own to study your self to grow and if what you have made in the end is an art that will benefit others with out a doubt the JKD community will back you 100% and any one who has ever ran a studio knows sponsorship is very important for getting your style your development out to the world where it helps others and opens a grand new addition to the martial arts world just like Lee did and the Gracie family did.

    remember Lee wanted to bring JKD to the world simply to unite every one bringing cultures together instead of riping them apart as most traditional beliefs and systems do.

    so remember with out Lee's drive for unification JKD just simply never would have been,

    and god knows how far behind the world would have been if not the rise of Bruce Lee and his dream of unification.

    as for the "fanboy and non-fighters" comment 90% of what i do is full contact no holdsbar fight training unlike what i have seen the majorty of the world outside of California do for one it is mandatory in a JKD certified school to partake in fight training you cant even become an instructor with out it in JKD considering a large part of JKD
    IS THE SCIENCE OF FIGHTING
    with out it your just not practicing the concepts JKD.
    from what i have experienced for one is if you don't use JKD in your advertisement is cause you don't have the certifications in JKD to start with,
    (which consists of certifications on display in dojo/school this is a advertisement if viewable by the general public),
    and two most of the ones outside of California not all but most schools claiming JKD are just people from other arts who read "The Tao of Jeet Kune Do" and all of a sudden think they know Jeet Kune Do and understand its principles with out ever getting proper training instruction on the basic tools and never applying it in a real fight.

    me personally when i started JKD i trained 8 hours a day and when we closed for the day me and the instructors stayed for an extra 2 hours after class having an all out brawl to finish the training for the day.

    (example) me and my instructor would have our first class at 4 to 5 am for a 4 hour class training law enforcement do you think they would train under us if we simply did what other systems do,
    if we didn't use high impact fight training as our main lessons?
    honestly lol
    i assure you we in my JKD school are fighters we are not "fanboys",
    we don't take just any one off the streets and train them
    in fact we always ask if they have a martial arts background or at least good experience in fighting if not we normally redirect them to other local dojo's/schools in the area before attending our classes,
    simply because of the level of brutality we use in our specific training used in our school.

    now i do understand why most schools wont train like this for one allot of students tend to lose technique in all out fight training but its our job as instructors to do individual training to help students brake there bad habits of falling into blind fighting (losing there cool) in high stress situations and helping them prefect keeping a calm in control demeanor allowing them to fight fluently instead of getting sloppy and losing all sense of training and technique.

    so your assessment is far off friend im not some fanboy or non-fighter, i don't play d&d and im not over concerned with lineage, a skilled fighter is a skilled fighter no matter if trained,street or any other means of fighting skill.

    I just feel that you should always take the straightest path go to the source and learn as much as you can gathering all the material you can on that boat so once you arrive to your island you can build a castle instead of a rickety warn down shack.
    with what JKD opens with in you, you could be breaking down all limitations and expanding all your possibility's pushing past all restrictions.

    (and with the point being that JKD is meant to be a consistently evolving science to fighting unlike standard martial arts arts that hold still or slowly progress the consistent rapid growth settles 3 arguments hear)

    for simon s
    (((1 JKD has evolved and is not the same exact of what Lee taught, exactly what Lee intended JKD to do just that evolve,

    for Kwajman
    and this is also what would obviously make it the best, JKD dose suggest one to study as many arts as possible absorbing everything useful rejecting what is useless

    for february
    and 3 in the end making the best of the best making a truly ultimate fighter out of your self in turn for you as an individual an ultimate art for you this is how you get "JKD the ultimate fighting system"!!!)))

    ((and just for holyheadjch to clarify it was not specifically a JKD school it was ran/owned by 1 JKD instructor 2 assistant instructors and 4 martial art classes (at one time 6 for about 2 1/2 to 3 years) each of them with there own set of instructors 1 of them was the JKD instructor and 2 of the 4 classes were the 2 assistant instructors for JKD, coexisting with JKD as the outlining advanced training after each class we only had a maximum of 12 students involved in the JKD portion of the school at one time where as i went from student , head student, personal trainer to later one of the instructors for the advanced training we did in the mornings for training law enforcement officers and our higher up students.
    when i say JKD school its to simplify it so im not bouncing around different arts that were all in the same school))

    :fight1:
     
  17. focused_rage

    focused_rage Valued Member

    assumption for assumption

    well first i never said it was exclusive to JKD just tends to have a more realistic approach none of that "if i kick a man coming at me with a knife in his shin crap he is dose not to reach down and or react to the attack" crap some years back i did some training with Tony Blauer hes not JKD but he has an unbelievable understanding of real situations and has this great high impact gear that allows you to really open up on the person you are training with i took some lessons from him cause we work in the same field (training law enforcement) and all plus he trains just like we do in JKD and in PFS with the full contact high impact fight training.
    plus hes one of very few instructors outside of JKD that will get his hands dirty and go rounds with you now that i respect
    (his move the half cobra is one deadly submission hard as hell to get out of and im a great grappler)
    so i am well aware of other systems have this in it just not many are real about it as JKD and Tony Blauer and i trained with some of Demi Barbito's students quite a few times and the Diaz brothers (UFC) from Stockton when they lived on the other side of 99 from me. but it seems if its not law enforcement or MMA/UFC the sparing seems to lack the realistic degree im use to for training and honestly just leaves me disappointed.

    also the JKD concepts and training style you don't just stop.

    lets face it the basic tools given in JKD such as foot work , hip torque , straight line of attack and the JKD north paw stance are all wonderful effective things that no good fighter would abandon and Escrima has such a wonderful weapons system plus the fluent motion it can teach even the worst person at foot work how to do it right and teach any one how to track some ones timing in a fight just by practicing sinawali number 1 with a partner, and thats just the novice tools.but great use still comes from it even when teaching the examples they provide with the students very own body movement increases speed , works for a great warm up.

    after all you don't throw away the whole set of craftsmen sockets and wrenches you got 4 years ago if you plan on working on your car some day, tools are there to be used and you should only throw one out if you have upgraded to the same size just better quality rather it be a better grip, more extension peaces or smother action what ever it may be just simply picking up the tools that are most effective for the main directive for the job.

    its not against the JKD "terms and conditions" to check your JKD reference guide. lol

    any one true to the JKD concepts wouldn't be so quick to soot down the idea of training under Dan Inosanto or his students just for the chance to learn possibly some new techniques or even get to spar with them.
    its a great experience and really opens your eyes to new creative ideas.
    btw these guys are not just good they are phenomenal, made me crack down hard on the art im developing grain by grain and speck by speck.
    and im glad they did otherwise i would have released something only half done and missing so many curtail points i would have totally missed,
    kinda like when Microsoft released windows me lol

    Lee said "I welcome those who like JKD to study it and improve it"
    (he kinda welcomed a start to an organization there didn't he)

    you got to remember JKD is always adding new arts to its curriculum and if the art is not useful the art wont make it in to the JKD curriculum.

    Lee said JKD was a reflection of him self and all he learned.
    now to understand that reflection you have to get with in touching distance of that mirror you have to know how thick the glass is where its weak and learn how to reinforce the weak spots.
    when Lee was studying WC he went as close to the root as he could and was a student of Ip man for quite some time before perfecting the flaws he seen in WC.
    to truly understand the development of any system to fighting you need learn from the strongest point to the source you can,

    to grow a strong tree you must water its roots so it can sink deep in the earth because with out strong roots the tree will fall and once it hist the ground all the branches no mater how long or short how thick or thin will brake making the trees entire life span worth nothing more than a home for termites.

    remember Bruce Lee believed in braking every move down to its root element to truly understand it's inner most workings spotting each flaw running a full diagnostic so he could study the problem and correct it simply upgrading what was already there instead of creating something new he wanted others to do the same as him and be able to truly understand that every ones body moves and operates differently and no 2 people have the same reaction or tolerance and to learn to evolve as you go by braking down the errors and quickly recognizing them so you could fix them on the spot hence every ones JKD being there own every ones truth in combat there own....

    JKD = Bruce Lee's process of studying him self.

    allot of people seem to forget one of the last things Lee said about JKD

    "I have disbanded all the organized schools of Jeet Kune Do because it is very easy for the students to mistake the agenda as the truth and to take the program as the way."

    Bruce Lee him self acknowledged JKD as an organized school and why cause the fact is JKD has a frame work, an outline, a concept to learn, a theological base and the instructions on how to apply it with a complete starter kit.

    there is a systematic root or guide line to JKD and its a very long proses because there are no short cuts to perfection its simple to understand all one has to do is get there head out of the Tau of JKD and get the physical body into the training especially the fight time only by trial and error can any one understand JKD.
    and any true practitioner of JKD would never say,
    "i have spent enough time in JKD "

    so test, fool prof, brake down and examen all possibility's no better way then testing it against the root of a system claimed to be the ultimate i would think.
    i for one would love for there to be more unique arts that function effectively in high stress situations honestly i would im running out of arts to study that carry the raw brutality i like

    as for crime being way up that shouldn't be the only reason one would ignore training with edged weapons or firearms seeing that its about training for any situation any time.

    a system that is based on a combination of only the most effective portions of other arts and how to make the moves even more effective a system built to constantly evolve a system that is based on perfecting ones self and focuses on mastering your own strengths and how to apply you to the fight and not a specific art to the fight would make it an ultimate system.
     
  18. Lord Bathmat

    Lord Bathmat Valued Member

    There is no ultimate martial arts. But I do believe there are some arts that are better than other arts for fighting and self defense.
     
  19. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    JKD the ultimate? No. No one has that right. As for calling Inosanto a liar. What balderdash. If Inosanto believes JKD is the Ultimate then it is. For Inosanto that is because that's what ultimately works for him. Other arts are 'the ultimate' for other people.

    The problem I also find is that very few people know how to blend different arts simply because they don't truly understand the arts their trying to blend which is why a lot of so called JKD'ers look more like a Jack of all trades and Master of none.

    Everything has a weakness JKD included and JKD's main weakness is the Bruce Lee he is a god worshiping idiots who would not know a real fight if it smacked them in the mouth.

    There is a small group of practitioners who get the point but unfortunately there are more who have totally missed the bus.

    Best regards

    Pat
     
  20. Lord Bathmat

    Lord Bathmat Valued Member

    But is JKD the ultimate system for Dan Inosanto? I don't know. I could be wrong but I am not aware if Dan Inosanto has ever been tested.
     

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