According to the following links: http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=5rlng1.2.1 and http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=5rlng1.2.3 It looks like the U.S. Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan Federation is attempting to trademark the phrase "Moo Duk Kwan" as well as the Moo Duk Kwan fist symbol. Is this something those of us who call what we do "Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan" should worry about?
Wow nice find! Maybe something to worry about. Depends on how serious they are on prosecuting violations. Might be something for all the "Tae Kwon Do Moo Duk Kwan" people to worry about as well.
I am sorry I do not think they can, because the hwa rang do sign is way to close and is trademarked and compywrited already. Sorry not trying to be a butt-head
I am not sure there Librarian, but my thought would be it is too late. Tae Kwon Do Moo Duk Kwan has been around for over 30 years. Not to mention there are many schools out there using the Moo Duk Kwan name that have been around for decades and decades.
All of your comments are valid, and I'm not too sure I support this move by the association I belong to, but this isn't just anyone trying to trademark "Moo Duk Kwan", its GM HC Hwang, son of Hwang Kee, the man who came up with the idea. That might give them an edge. Does it make it right/wrong - I dunno. However, I'm not sure this is the smartest move for the World Moo Duk Kwan, which is trying to "unify" the Moo Duk Kwan.
I didn't say anything to the contrary. Hwa Rang Do has nothing to do with the copyrighting on the name Moo Duk Kwan. Unless there is a Hwa Rang Do Moo Duk Kwan out there that I didn't know of, and they were around before Hwang Kee founded his org.
No there is no hwa rang do Moo Duk Kwan, however there is a Hwa rang moo duk kwan. And Mr. Capp What I meant is that the sign of hwa rang do was trademarked before the tang soo do people did theres. Thats all. Sorry about the mix up
No prob there m8. I agree on the symbol as well. That symbol has been used for a long long time before Moo Duk Kwan adopted it.
Trademarks don't mean much anyway. Kuk Sool Won has the name trademarked, but there is nothing anything can do about someone calling themselves Kuk Sool Do, and teach all the same stuff. There are plenty of masters who do it. The average new guy is not going to now the difference between Kuk Sool Won or Kuk Sool Do, so I would imagine the same would go Moo Duk Kwan. Anyone could just pick a name close enough that is recognizable and use it. It is not like any association has the money behind it that say Nike does.
I am sorry but this is where you are worng to some degree. trademarks do mean somthing. It however just depends on how much of a stickler a parson is. I will pick on hwa rang do the art I am in. Hwa rang do sued the makers of tekken. A game I love. Because they used the name with out there ok. And added an o to the name. So instead of calling it hwarang, they called it hworang. Which is in violation of copywrite and trademark. And I have seen that named used for a guy that has done just that with the name of kuk sool won. But it is up to your Kuk Sa Nim if he wants to take and run with it. Its his name, and his art.
All I can really add is that when I was initially involved in Tang Soo Do, it was in a trasitionary process from Moo Duk Kwan to the World Tang Soo Do Association. I think this had something to do with trademark issues and so forth.
Moo Duk Kwan Tae Kwon Do is huge in the United States. My Master, Myung Kyu Kang has been the President of the Tae Kwon Do-Moo Duk Kwan Association of the United States since 1964. The fist appears in the school crest at my school, the United Martial Arts College of Sacramento. I'm not sure what purpose trademarking it serves, but I most certainly hope that it does not result in a chain of lawsuits, especially against well-respected, long-established schools. I would certainly hope that mutual respect would prevent that.
Well, there's obviously two sides to this. Yeah it would suck if this turned into lawsuit city. But what about the late GM Hwang Kee? He devoted his entire life to creating this system of Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan. Many people have taken what he has developed and ran with it. On one side you have the argument that TSD was like a gift to the world and no one can hold ownership to art and that it should be free for people to interpet and share however they want. But then it is also the life of one man we're talking about. It's like when a single individual builds a corporation with his own two hands from bottom to top into a worldwide company but then gets fired by his/her board of trustees when a company goes public or merges or whatever. Yeah the economy of the company and the good of the many are important, but what about that lone individual? It was the late GM Hwang Kee's vision to see a global Moo Duk Kwan - these days TSDers are so fragmented, with so many associations and independent organizations. True we're not as bad as the Wing Chunners in that we don't quibble over retarded stuff. But his vision was a Moo Duk Kwan under the same roof, at the very least the many factions cooperating with each other. I don't know if trademarking popular symbols and labels is the best step towards this, but I can understand the feeling when you start something and put all your love and effort into it and see people run with the fruits of your labor (regardless of what comes from that). *Edit: of course this overlooks the numerous political problems and various disputes that led to different fractionations of the original Moo Duk Kwan, but hey just pointing out that another side to the dilemma might exist...
Also, upon talking with my master, it seems that the US Soo Bahk Do Federation actually did trademark the phrase "Moo Duk Kwan" for some time in the United States. Normally patents and trademarks only exist for a predetermined length of time, 7 years or some nice round number like that. Guess their last one expired. Seeing as how countless schools have had "Moo Duk Kwan" in their names over the past decades, I don't think another trademark will be a problem even if it does get awarded to the Federation.
Here is my issue with it in regards to Tae Kwon Do. Hwang Kee taught Tand Soo Do or Soo Bahk Do, not Tae Kwon Do. His juniors took his school name and applied it to Tae Kwon Do. So, they left him because they felt he was wrong or had lost the way and they took his school name. They made up new forms and taught a new style, but used Hwang Kee's school name to market themselves. I know that in Tang Soo Do the same could be said up to teh point of making new stuff up. I have not seen a Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan school that does not do Hwang Kee's forms. So, I do not have as much of a personal issue with that, although I can see that Hwang Kee worked hard to build his name and it should remain his and with his organization. That would be like Pepsi taking CocaCola's name suddenly because it was no longer copyrighted.
Hrmmm. When I did MDK TKD, I still had to do the same forms... some of my pals who were also in TKD did the same TSD forms as well. Depends on the school I think. Some do it, some don't (ie Richard Chun).
Same here Eternal. We did Pyung Ahn, but they changed to Palgwe later on, adn then I learned those. It struck me odd that we were Tae Kwon do school and we had a picture of Hwang Kee at the front of the class. I understand it now, but at 15 years old I didn't quite get it.
