Over the past several months I've been trying to teach myself a little Bagua on the side using video tapes, most recently using some of the Yin-style Bagua tapes by Xie Peiqi and He Jinbao (which are very good as DVDs go, btw). Since I've recently relocated to Chicago I've had the good fortune to find an actual Bagua (Cheng-style) teacher. When I showed him my Bagua, he said "why don't you do tang-ni bu (mud-sliding step)?" My only answer was "because the videos I've been using don't." He said it was very important to developing the unique jin-dao of Bagua and that I would have to learn it before I could make real progress (in other words, I'll probably be switching to Cheng style for a while ). Anyway, my question to you more experienced Bagua people is: what style do you practice and do you practice tang-ni bu? If so, what benefits do you think it provides? Do you lift the back heel off the ground before sliding forward or do you try to keep the foot as flat as possible? I can see how it would strengthen the muscles in a different way as well as stimulating the yong-quan (foot) meridian, so I'm not arguing against it--I realize it's a training tool and that you wouldn't actually step like that while fighting. My next question is the history of tang-ni bu: it seems that not only He Jinbao, but also other well-respected Yin style practitioners like Adam Hsu have mostly done away with the tang-ni bu. Is this a recent development or did Yin style never use it? If it is a recent development then why was it discarded? If Yin style never used it then why do other styles? Any info. Bagua people could provide would be much appreciated.
mud stepping i've practiced gao and park's yin fu, and currently study cheng style. you are very correct on the usefulness of training with this step, especially in the beginning. in bagua, the stepping is essential and rarely has a person developed the correct connections, secondary muscle tone, and alignments necessary to use a more natural rolling step correctly. the mud step requires one to use the legs much more actively, engaging all the correct tendons to extend and then pull the weight onto the forward leg. i believe tang ni bu also helps to stretch the leg and tendons while it is probable that using a natural step to begin your bagua training you will not fully train the leg and kua or erase old bad patterns. i can only theorize as to why some instructors would drop the mud step....perhaps to skip ahead to more martial applications. when i was first told to use tang ni bu instead of the rolling lion step i had been training with, i was a little resistant. but now i grasp its importance fully as it has enabled me to improve my alignments and whole-body power connection. our mud step is lifting and placing the foot down so that the entire sole makes contact at the same time, and either actually scraping the ground or just hovering parallel over it while advancing the foot. this really helps me to use the inner arches and thighs/kua to step. especially focussing on limiting the knees to stay over the feet and not pass the toes. i've always been flat-footed, but with careful practice of tang ni bu i've really built up some arches for the first time ever. unfortunately i don't know any of the historical reasons for the apparent difference in stepping techniques between styles of bagua. again, i can theorize.......i would like to think that a complete school, one that teaches all possible forms of bagua, would teach all the variations in stepping. and that some schools have specialized over time in just one approach. that for extreme yin stylists, you'd want to step in and out quickly to deliver many palm strikes and kicks.....and that for extreme cheng stylists, you'd want to hold your ground firmly, scoop and sweep legs, and have maximum power and leverage for throws. from my experience, tang ni bu is a great foundation to train your bagua stepping correctly. and from that you can then branch out into other types of stepping for other various applications and fighting styles. ps: tang ni bu is actually very good for combat situations where the ground is uneven, uncertain, or difficult to see---you use your feet and toes to "see" the terrain.
Onyomi, I don't practice bagua, but this is a great article by the Black Taoist. I believe he's a yin style practitioner... http://www.blacktaoist.com/Novell martial articles/Tang Ni Bu.html
Thanks for the info... when you say "for coming up and down the mountain" do you mean literally, "when fighting on an incline," or is it a metaphor for training? If it is a metaphor I would have thought it would be the opposite, i.e. use tang-ni bu in the beginning to strengthen and train your legs and then gradually transition to the more natural lion stepping for real fighting?
mud stepping up, down, all around great link zac! yes, the school of the black daoist practices yin fu bagua. they said it much more succinctly than i was able to post--don't reply right before bed! as for lion going uphill, and mud downhill.....try this little exercise. pick a staircase with at least 10 steps, preferably one that isn't too busy or else you'll get lots of very strange looks from people! practice walking up and down the steps, concentrating on each step/weight transfer. -sink onto your weight-bearing leg while extending the other forward to the next step. -place the entire foot down so that all parts make contact at the same time. -contract the muscles and tendons of the front leg from the toes and foot all the way up to the kua and psoas. -relax all the muscles of the back leg and pull your weight forward. the goal is to glide up and down the stairs using the strength and flexibility of your legs as shock absorbers. just like the shocks on your car. if your shocks are worn, your ride will be bumpy and jarring. if your suspension system is properly balanced and in good shape, you will have that cadillac glide that bagua is known for. if you can do this, and really feel yourself using the insides of your legs, you will find that your upper body can relax and enjoy the ride. also, you will find that you can move much more quickly than you could before. i love to practice bagua tang ni bu stepping while hiking. its very effective for really hustling through the forest or desert. you find yourself flowing right over bumps and obstacles as your intention is so much more focussed on actually moving forward instead of bouncing up and down fighting gravity! a word of caution, ease into this training....you can very easily injure yourself if you have not taken enough time to properly tone and condition your legs as you find yourself sprint-walking-flowing down mountains! i used to do this in cheap rubber flip-flop sandals until i broke a toe on a stubby root sticking out of the ground.
if the mud step walking is your reaction and you have to move quickly by sliding your foot how would you cope if there were things in your way? like a wall behind you or a chair, stool, rock in front of you? or you were blinded?
distinction first of all, it must be made clear that the way we practice mud stepping does not limit the way we apply it. the natural, rolling, lion step does not necessarily lift the feet way up into the air, as if you were constantly high-stepping (that's another type of stepping-chicken). and the mud step is not limited to constantly keeping the foot an inch above the ground. if you read my little exercise posted above...it will be quite obvious that you must pick up your foot in order to ascend a staircase. what mud stepping teaches you is how to lift the foot the minimum necessary, how to use the correct muscles and tendons of the legs to walk to maximize your root while moving around and over obstacles. the mud step, because the foot is kept parallel to the ground, allows you to use your feet/toes to feel the uneven terrain, and helps you to develop the proper strength to move the empty-weighted foot to a good position, and then to safely and stably transfer your weight to it. with the lion step, you lose the sensing ability of the toes as you walk by lifting them and placing the heel down first. this tends to force you to have to committ to the step no matter what the terrain under the placed foot. so if the terrain below your foot is less than ideal, you've got to go with it and make the best of it anyhow. you walk by rolling all over everything, like a ball getting bounced around. when you think about it, its pretty stupid to call the rolling step the lion step. watch a lion walk, especially when its stalking something. you'll see it using the mud step----without any sliding. it'll lift its foot up and over obstacles when necessary, using its foot to sense the terrain instead of using its eyes which are very busy watching its prey. the way we train the mud step teaches you to be able to sense obstacles with your feet. it trains the needed strength in the legs to be able to balance on 1 while shifting the other around chairs and rocks. just try blind folding yourself and see what kind of stepping you'll find more useful. i'm willing to bet that after falling down, twistiing your ankle, and stubbing your nose into walls a few times, you'll start sinking onto your leg and carefully feeling forward with the other foot with the mud step!
In Yin style bagua the Che Lun Bu (wheel step) also referred to as lion step is a beginners method of turning that is a natural stepping method so the mind can focus on the rest of the body. It doesn't emphasize or exxagerate the heel to toe. The method of stepping will turn into the tang shui bu?, water dripping step (note--I'll have to confirm the Chinese) which is lifting the foot off the ground as flat as possible, it hovers as close to ground as is possible, before touching the ground the instep is stretched taught/flat, still being careful not to show the bottom of the foot to the front or the back. When the foot is weighted and touches the 5 toes grasp the ground. This is the important development which involves yongquan point and the conservation and development of energy. There is no sliding, when the foot is naturally weighted it should stay. There's a saying of walking like you're in thick slippery mud, which means where your foot steps it is stuck there and no outside force should be able to move it. It stays until you pick it up. It also means to bring your weight/blood down into the legs, lowering your center of gravity. When you walk down a hill you naturally bring your weight down. Walk like a tiger plodding down a hill, not like a deer bounding up a mountain. The saying of walking as if in mud is applied at all times. There may of at some point been a misunderstanding/ intermixing of the terms, and if the water dripping step is done prescisely it would appear that it is sliding when its actually hovering. All the Cheng guys they've seen when in the midst of a fight employ a more natural step. Sit back like in a sedan chair. Drop low so the thighs are as close to a 90degree angle as possible, its not called scissor feet or scissor calves its called 'scissor thighs'. The thighs should feel like they are cutting something between them. Your own body and thigh strength will determine when the front foot is weighted. A more advanced person will have the ability to weight the foot later in the step, also to do a true Wo Bu (lying step). In the 3 step method in the basic strikes, the back step should pay attention to shooting the foot through the crook behind your own knee. Bagua always expects to be right up against the opponent and all its stepping methods including turning are designed for close confines, hence scissor thighs.
Thanks for the info. So are you saying that the "tang-shui bu" you described is the Yin-style equivalent of the tang-ni bu or that Yin style has all three? You keep your thighs parallel to the ground when walking the circle? That must be quite a workout. I was also wondering if you had any opinion on the degree of guo-tun (tucking in the hips) that should be present in Yin Bagua. My new (Cheng) teacher emphasises it quite a lot, so that it becomes more prominent than I see He Jinbao doing in the tapes. Is there a difference in the importance of this body mechanic among the styles or is it that tucking in the hips more is just more of a workout?
The thighs should be at enough of an angle to get the scissor effect, but yeah pretty low to get power in the lying step and monkey squatting techniques. Tuck the tailbone a lot at first but it can be natural as well since the hips only really tuck at the completion of a strike.
be careful with the hip/tailbone tucking....when practiced to extreme it will flatten out your lower back and wreck your natural curves and alignments. i've seen many teachers overemphasize this....and many more students mistakenly think that this beginning-level focus is to always be done. your teacher should make clear that this is a temporary training to probably correct your tail sticking out too far---a common condition today. even when you are focussing on tucking the tailbone a lot, you muist let it stretch out into its opposite position while walking. don't try to keep it permanently tucked while you walk---its supposed to swing out and in! after the basic training, the hips should be loosened and free to swing forward and back naturally. they tuck under to shoot the foot forward, and they pull back to shift the weight forward. thanks Kronos for the great description of water-drip stepping...i'd never heard it called that, but it a perfect name for what i was describing earlier. also very helpful point, to focus on the scissoring of the thighs, actively using the inside and outside of the thighs alternately--squeezing closed and open to take every step with power.
Good points by Averan. If you've never held the tailbone tucked before it seems to take about a month for the muscles to become used to it and tuck easily plus you'll train a range of motion thats further than you may actually need, after that think about being in a somewhat natural state. The tucking does come into play with the micro-orbit but it seems kind of like a way to get it started. It should open naturally after about 10 to 20 minutes of turning the circle and its what I used to dub as 'getting into the zone' but I think the real term is something like 'the body feels like its swimming in water'. Actually I think averan has it, it tucks and untucks while walking and since the coccyx works as a pump for the spinal fluid which works in conjunction with the bones of the skull which will probably be the 'starting' action of the orbit. On a circle you are forced to tuck to get the inside foot around (bai step) and forced to untuck to get the outside foot around (kou step). Edit- 'Traditionally' after the wheel step you'd do the Bai step which requires tucking the tailbone to open the kua. There's a way to turn the circle while only using bai steps. Tucking the tailbone and opening the kua close mingmen point which slows the storing of jing and promotes its conversion to qi. After that one would learn the Kou steps and the way to turn only using kou steps, which untucks the tailbone and opens mingmen point. Then you'd move on to the other steps. Grabbing the ground with the toes should also be done consistantly all day for about a month until you're used to it. If we walked barefoot in the outdoors all the time there wouldn't be a need to retrain your foot to grasp the ground. It protects the toes, raises the soft tissue off the ground and strengthens the arch and balls/heel of foot. A lot of qigong comes from observing nature but some of it requires us to go back. We do still instinctively draw in heat through Laogong point as I'm sure you've all held your hands open and cupped towards a fire to get warm. The grinding/pushing palm in Bagua activates the laogong to draw in or push out by making the center of palm flat. Actually in the Dragon the zhen (thunder) trigram which contains the long shocking force in all its strikes should actually be pushing out through laogong when turning, getting used to constantly putting force out. Its the boldest trigram, the oldest son and should contain that fierce attitude of putting out force. The bear Gen (mountain) trigram wants to appear stupid and small so the hands are held cupped and constantly drawing in. It doesn't want to give any hints to what its going to do. It really plays in to each animals overall tactics and goals. Edit- Onyomi, A misconception on my part, 90 degrees is more a mental image I use, if given a degree it'd be around 45 but the real guage for middle level turning is to drop one head height or 8-12", beyond that gets into lower level. Play around with the lower level stepping if you're young and able. As for going low when turning, don't really push it too far. There are dangers in low stepping, strained muscles, pulled/torn tendons. For some TCM reason sex does pull strength out of the legs and reduces flexability so pay attention to that when trying to go low. Its a gradual process and there are other exercises to help. Duck walking, feet together squatting and striking, kicks done from squatting, not to mention just sitting on haunches with feet flat. ------------------
