Hope you don't mind me saying this Taiji, and you know I respect your views like everyone else lol. Anyway drugs are harmful in the body in the long term view, I know this first hand by living with drug dealers in my block of flats. I agree with your point of saying alcohol is addictive and so are smoking in that matter and I've cut down quite a lot lol. I can't see your argument with caffeine and sugar to the group, I really don't accept this without proof, I'm really sorry Taiji but you would really need to have a serious problem to get enough of this type of stimulant to be able to cause the same effect of any other drug lol. Yes I agree with you that it can be dangerous if you smoke and yes I do have experience as both of my parents have coped with cancer and they have both smoked but it's not the only way to end up with health risks lol. I could never chain smoke in the lesson as I'd feel really bad as I was supposed to be learning the form instead of smoking :Angel: . I do try to not smoke and I've managed to go for a week now and it's tough lol. I supposed your going to say the usual lol. chant lol. Anyway what if some people opened up more with smoking as it gets them to relax when nothing else works. lisa xx
Okay - it's late Ms Slapper but here we go ..... lol Sugar is addictive, screws up your endocrine system (causing some types of diabetes) and contributes to obesity (and hence all the health problems that go with that ) also tooth decay and it alters behaviour and has an impact on mental health. It has been shown to contribute to cancer cell production in the body. Caffeine causes heightened stress levels and is addictive. It also alters mood, behaviour and can affect mental health. It is also carcinogenic in the long-term. Smoking does not 'help you relax' in any way whatsoever (although most smokers believe it does!) Smoking only relieves the symptoms of nicotine withdrawal - which was caused by smoking in the first place!! The single most effective con foisted on human beings in history is the 'pleasure of smoking'. I will not insult your intelligence by listing the harmful effects of it. If you want to do any of these things it is entirely up to you, we all die eventually anyhow, but please don't justify or whinge about it lol Being dependent on substances is something all us advanced monkeys are prone to, but it is basically a crutch and a weakness when you're honest about it. I am so much more relaxed off caffeine, nicotine, sugar, alcohol and THC than I am on them - and believe me, I have thoroughly road-tested all of them plus some much more evil substances along the way..... I spent the weekend at a party where most of the people there were smoking (cigarettes and/or cannabis) and/or drinking, I did none of these things and was totally relaxed and had a fab time - years ago I wouldn't have believed that possible. The thing that makes me laugh is people look at me like I have two heads every time I turn down a joint. I so much prefer to not depend on these things as a social lubricant, I also like to feel good in the mornings when I do my TJQ practice rather than half-dead lol Make your choices, it's your life :Angel:
That really doesn't make sense Its like saying Burgers are bad, because I know someone that works in a drive through When it comes to things being bad, what isn't :cry: All you can do is have a healthy balanced lyfestyle. Its easy enough to kill yourself with LEGAL substances if you're not careful..... Back to the thread, the evidence (or lack of) is pointing towards weed not being helpful with Tai Chi.
opening gates or meditating, and saying intaking toxins such as marijuana will defeat the purpose is like saying... the people whom meditate outside in chinese polluted cities (worse then LA)... are rescieving no benefits. however, i think there is a better arguement to be made. that is, if grass is the only reason you meditate or that you can, you probably are not gaining any benefit from the meditations. if it was a stepping stone to help your meditation and you no longer needed it, that is probably alot better then saying you need it to meditate. i meditate with and without it, however i find that when i'm without it i am much more clear and focused. however, i am a over-hyper person and my friends always tease me for saying i have ADD or ADHD lol because of my attention span. somedays pot can help me stay relaxxed, calm and useful. on other days, i get into party mode and am talking with a short attention. on these days, i am in no condition to meditate lol, so how would it help? i think, pure meditation abilities lie in dedication. if you want to be better at meditating, practice and relax. you may find the dalai lamas "how to practice" a good book on learning about morality, meditation and wisdom. again, tai chi and martial arts is probably more fun on weed, but it also is a distraction. the thing smokers say is "wow, music is better. this is great. or i love this on weed" ect... it is true for lots of us. things are fun! however, that doesn't mean you are doing them better lol. i can get drunk and drive a lawn mower all day and still be horrible at cutting grass if i'm having fun. the same goes with grass.. you might be less bored, but if you are bored then why are you doing tai chi in the first place? for whose benefit? imagine being in the middle of class and you start thinking about candy, brownies and nachoes. then your mind wanders and your jamming to pink floyd in your head... t hen the sifu says something you here out of context and laugh out loud! lol. this is not going to benefit your training! if you are going to do it, do it on your own time or with friends whom you are sharing a similiar experience with. if you cannot control it, do not use it to distract others in your class. learn in class, practice and party at home. summary: benefits: it makes stuff fun it can help calm you down or focus it can fit your lifestyle it can spark your creativity, if that is what motivates it hehe sometimes it can help meditations cons: it can do the complete opposite... making you nervous, unfocused it can sometimes make you laugh when your not trying to it can make you hungry (thats why aids/cancer patients need it) it can cause asthma/allergies (much higher risk then cancer) please look into vaporization to reduce the side effects. please also try not to distract others or your only going to draw unwanted attention. also, do not depend on it to be your reason or tool for meditation.
It makes sense when you live in a flat where there are drug dealers living in the same block as you. You see the dameage they have done to the brain and everything else first hand. You see the people why buy the drugs and take it to the store room to get their fix for the afternoon, You see first hand the threats if you tell them to leave the block when it's interfering with you life as well. You see the folk who are taking the drugs limp because they can only find a good vien in their ankle as they have destroyed the rest with injecting . You here the fights in the hallway because the dealer won't sell them any drugs cos they haven't got enough money or they won't be a runner for them. This is what I'm talking about, it's ok using burgers as an example but I've been living round this for quite a while now and I see the damage what drugs do to people first hand. You may start with soft drugs and when that doesn't fill your life then you need something stronger. I hate seeing the damamge what's it's caused and I seen to see them dissapear and turn to something like a zombie because drugs has taken control of their lives. lisa xx
very big difference still, and it differs even more so from person 2 person, obviously for me, drinkin makes me wanna go sleep or somethin, a definite nono for martial arts, but thats jus me smokin helps me relax, heightens senses such as hearing, seeing, and often that 6th sense feeling we all know about, mentally it boosts me...but on the downside, physically it slows me down. i guess it all depends on how we learn MA's and your state of mind during training.
You say it ok talking about burgers. But your talking about injecting drugs. I don't know what this has to do with weed? We might as well talk about burgers.....
just so everyone knows... this discussion is about martial arts (meditation, focus in tai chi) and marijuana. this discussion is not discussing heroin, meth or crack, all drugs that are known for decreasing morals and causing poverty. however, also remeber... you probably live around more prescribtion drug abusers and alcoholics, then you do around the evil marijuana smoker stereotype. again as a repeat.... it helps some people, it is not required, if you use it, don't depend on it! if your meditations depend soley on your smoking, your not meditating for yourself and the well being of others. the point of meditation is to calm and relax yourself, as well as reflect your surroundings, in order to obchieve wisdom. i have found many wise debates in smoking circles, much more then i've found elsewhere. in order to make a statement against others, to make accuisitions, people should do research beyond local news and stereotypes. to make something sound intelligent, we need to learn about the positives and the negatives, not just one or the other. that is why, i posted about norml.org, they give a more balanced approach on researching about this issue. however, if you are resourceful and intelligent on the issue you can understand why some use it and some choose not to. think of marijuana as something that works and doesnt work, a dagger balancing on its tip. somedays, its relaxxing, somedays it causes sleeping. somedays it causes intelligent thinking and full alertness. for some, it improves gleicoma and driving vision. for others, it causes them to be to unclear and groggy to drive. for some, it makes them hungry so they eat food when normally they have no motivation (such as cancer patients and aids victims). for some, it helps their meditations by allowing them to be more relaxxed and focused (expecially add disabilitied people). for others and on other days, it causes you to be less focused and go mind wandering. for some it causes them to be creative one day, and to sleepy to work on art the next! it is very ying and yang. that is why it needs to be discussed both in a positive and negative manor. for instance... i smoke... but i'm not going to give it to teens because it causes puberty difficulties lol. however, my friend's mom has severe MS. after she smoked, it was the first time she was able to not feel pain in over 20 some years 0.o should i say "hey, its illegal, you should take the pain like a women!" lol. or should she be given something highly addictive such as an opium based drug (vicadin, oxycotton, morphine), which are harmful and have no real healing properties (just pain killing)???? on top of this, should we give out opiet prescribitons with the horrible history of opium? opium medicines were discovered through forced labor, slave labor and forced use. the french and british both have histories of forcing heroin or opium into people (non-users) and at making them grow it as their only crop. there have been millions of people in Laos and Vietnam that were forced to labor in fields to grow opium, or face the consequences of death or severe poverty. this opium then was produced into medicines and heroin to be sold in the west, and helped fuel the Vietnam war (since France had lost their opium/heroin producing colony). shew! the point is... there is much worse out there that is legal... even if opiets are synthetic today, there side effects and addictions are not. the same goes with alcohol. alcohol, ciggerrettes, opiets, cocaine, meth, heroin(opiet) and crack all have greater side effects, addiction rates, deaths and abuse rates to percentage of users. sceneraios postive: 1. person has MS or a disease(arthritas, cancer and aids). now that they no longer have to focus on their pain while smoking, they can do meditation or maybe even tai chi. 2. a person has difficulties concentrating or enjoys smoking. when they do other activities they find themselves doing better or at least trying harder. negative: 1. the person has asthema or allergies to smoke (of all kinds). ciggerette smoke is linked to the same cancergen and memory loss side effects as marijuana. (much of it is due to intaking chemicals or cancergens) 2. the person does not want smoke in their lungs. they do not want to risk loosing athletic and breathing abilities 3. they get caught! lol again, if your going to be a martial artist, you should not smoke. however if someone wants to use it less harmfully such as a cancer patient or an athlete, they need to look into ointments (dit da jow with marijuana, similiar to older medicines when it was legal) or vaporizing (smokeless, it heats up but not burns the marijuana). also, we all share different beliefs. we shouldn't force ours upon others when they are injustified. i do not want others to be forced to smoke or pressured, as i do not want others to tell me i cannot.
LOL! Jroe... pack another bowl, puff tuff and then..... chill ... I think we all get the point that you are pro ganga.
This thread, http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24194 warns that tai chi form might be a gateway practice into learning how to fight! Oh you might think tai chi is harmless now, but in 20 years time you'll be looking down at your broken arthritic hands and torn tendons, and regretting your wasted youth.
sorry, i just wanted to make a defense on the issue in my fav forum hehe. i think some of the most intelligent and philosophical debates happen here, well sometimes i feel that way lol.
are you arguing that toking da Mary-J improves your concentration I'm not sure that's entirely accurate is it?
small amounts of mj, can at sometimes increase conecentration. it really matters on your mood, enviroment and how you learn. think of it as... A. student, hates listening to music when they study. music distracts their abilities. B. loves listening to music when they study, and it helps thier grades now, would the conclusion be that since, music doesn't work for student A, that it shouldn't be recommended for anyone? the same would go with b, since student B does better, should we blast metallica in our classrooms? for some: (pain relieving, do research at norml.org) the same goes with mj. alot of users find it to be a better pain reliever then opiets (which are horrible) and antiinflamatories that often do nothing other then cause acid reflux or intestinal problems. in this sense, if you are a martial artist in pain, it might help reduce that pain (it also has anti-inflamatory benefits). for others: (like me) who are often hyper, poor at concentrating and feel they have A.D.D. ... it often helps. however, on the flip side, there are times when I need to concentrate and cannot. it really depends on the activity (reading puts me to sleep ect). also.. if you smoke lets say enough to go party ... your not going to be able to improve your tai chi lol. people look at mj as all or nothing, when in reality they should look at it from how it is being used. a person might find it beneficial, but it really depends on their useage (and how much), what they are using it for, and their mood. i could easily do kf one day on mj, and then the next day be to sleepy to even get off the couch lol. thats why both sides of the argument need to look at this issue intelligently
first off it seems many of you either never smoked weed, smoked rarely, or quit long ago in which you don't know anything anyway or forgot what its like. As far as I'm concerned, and I have smoked many times before, it's like going to work, smoke or drink when you are done. I never smoke or drink until at least a few hours after practise(though I study xingyi but that probably doesn't matter here). I certanly don't endorse getting caught up in any sort of vice as it can become increasingly difficult to quit. however a drink of smoke at the end of the day isn't a big deal. as for the legal mumbojumbo, I don't give a **** about what one select group of people, especially one whos aim is to control (i.e. government), says about anything. as far as man made laws go I follow a basic code of do whats "right": don't hurt people unnessisarily, don't condemn someone for there beliefs,exercise respect and responsibility ect. Another idea here could be that if you do get something real from your IMA it may cause you to quit anyway, maybe even easier. do weed and MAs mix, well... definititly not at the same time. Will it affect you training, of coarse, everything does. if you are responsible with it and use it resonably, not during workouts or meditation for that matter, it won't likely make much differance. By the way, if everyone did smoke weed, we'd all be to lazy to fight and go to war anyway. Half kidding. so uh... don't use any "mind altering" drug before or during practice, but it can be used responsibly having minimal negative effects.keep in mind from an energetic point of veiw anything you eat, drink, breath, feel, yada,yada,yada will have a direct effect on you practice. maybe your water isn't very clean, or your air, or to much proccesed food. these could perhapes have a worse impact. but I digress, doing these(tjq and weed) together= bad, doing seperate but responsibily= no biggie.
have used for 15 years. Tried tai-chi and chi-gung stoned. I have been straight now for 10 months. All areas of my martial arts, aikido and taichi have improved immensely over the 10 month period. A warning also my friend,I am also having counselling due to mild depression from my long term drug abuse. Stay clear from depending on the weed! Go with the natural flow.
Some more interesting evidence.. apparently marijuana may cause new cell growth, etc.. http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn8155
