Tae Kwon Do any Good on the Street

I don't think you understand my post

Say I'm standing left leg on and kick you, depending on how you're standing my kick will vary. we'll presume you're standing left leg on too for this example. so I turning kick(roundhouse) into your left arm, I now jump and spin to kick you in the left side of your face, how does your right hand block it?

 

Hey.. Just do my move.. It works.. Lol..

:woo:

 

lol lanakin's right
it works
better than heart is groin though
but this isn't as good if there's a couple more guys

 

lol i meant if i were to grab ur foot
if u do what u wrote up there i would do 360 turn roundhouse kick into and under ur spin kick
it works

 

enlwlffo, I'm a bit 50:50 as to whether your smashing the foot down work work either. I'll have to pressure test it.

As for all this kicking with the 'free' (read support) leg at an opponent who has caught your leg. I take it that you guys haven't pressure tested that. I call that style of move a 'sacrifice' kick because it's a bit like putting all your eggs in one basket. If the kick doesn't KO them then you end up on your ass with another fighter controlling your legs. In sparring this style of move could so easily end up with the kicker being turned into a rear-mount position or leglock.

With the sacrifice kicks, I'd sooner try machinegun tiger-tail kicks (a bit like a back kick) than jumping around the other way with a roundkick.

The most feasible 'escape' that I have found is for the kicker to immediately jump in and planrt really heavy punches to the catcher's face, hopefully causing a cover-up which results in the release of the leg. But if it doesn't work then the kicker just has to reside themselves to the inevitable groundfight on uneven terms....

But I'm always on the lookout for new techniques.

 

lol i agree wit u in that the jump roundhouse kick after getting foot grabbed is not a very good idea
but if u try to jump in and punch them all they have to do is get close, plant their face in ur chest and kick ur other leg out
if they get a solid hold on ur leg and u cant power it down, i personally IMO think its better to drop on ur hands and kick them in the groin
or u could jump in real quick and wrap an arm around their neck
if u go down, so do they
but there's always the chance that a good fighter will just break ur ankle while u try to do anything which would leave u looking like this

 

my point really was that this is all hypothetical and it's a bit pointless saying

"you do x, I'll do y"

"when you then do z (out of however many choices) I'll then do a"

anything can work on paper. This is little more than the time machine game they play in a most excellent film about Bill S Preston Esq. and Ted Theodore Logan

 

On a side note, Hal Landon Jr. (The guy that played Ted Theodore Logan's Dad) just happened to be my acting teacher at Long Beach City College He's got an incredible amount of energy for a guy his age

 

I think it is more effective than not knowing jack . If you work on hand and foot combos and don't stop then yes it can be pretty good. Kick low in fights. Take their knees out with those strong tkd legs . Ground fighting is kind needed for street fights so it would be hard with just pure tkd.

 

The Jidokwan school usually teaches grappling (the founder was trained in Judo and incorportaed this into the cirriculum). I have talked to several students who train also in the Jidokwan branch and they all confer the same, that they also have trained in grappling or ground fighting to some extent in their studies of Jidokwan TKD. After my long winded thought, I have posted some basic history. Jidokwan (for those not familiar) is one of the first five kwans of TKD. Some of the different TKD schools of thought can be quite different from one another. The TKD styles I trained under are Jidokwan and Han Moo Kwan. I find it also interesting how intertwined Karate and TKD are. I had the pleasure of learning under Master Mike Dunn who brought in a little of his experience while being a beat cop to TKD. So, while we did do some high kicking, mainly for balance purposes, most of our kicks were aimed at gut level and below, knees were important, as were elbows. Anyway, I always appreciated his insights when we were doing different self defense techniques on what he thought worked and why and he always welcomed us bringing in questions and ideas as to something we thought effective and then we'd put it to trial and if it didn't work...well, it was thrown out. So, when I think of TKD and being street effective, I say yes...it definately can and no art is just strictly one way. So, TKD is not just sport, it is what you want it to be.

Chapter 1: The Development of the Kwans

Chapter 1, Section 2: Choson Yun Moo Kwan Kong Soo Do Bu
(Jidokwan)

The Jidokwan was founded by an elite member, CHUN Sang Sup,
on May 3, 1946 as the Choson Yun Moo Kwan Kong Soo Do Bu.

When he was a teenager, he learned Judo and learned Karate while
studying abroad in Japan. After the Independence Day, he opened
the Choson Yun Moo Kwan Kong Soo Do Bu at the former Judo
school, Choson Yun Moo Kwan, where he taught Judo and Karate.
He began to recruit new members. He had a slender figure and was
not particular, but was an intellect and always wore suits. However,
during the Korean War, he vanished, the Choson Yun Moo Kwan
Kong Soo Do Bu was abolished and it was renamed Jidokwan.

After Independence Day, the Choson Yun Moo Kwan taught no
guep (mu guep) to 8th guep in high, middle and low classes. The
student's Kwan number was based on guep promotion, and not only
the day of the first registration as a student.

The Choson Yun Moo Kwan was started in Seoul, but the major
development and structural growth was spread from Chun Ju, Cholla
Buk Do as a center. Then, CHUN Il Sup opened another school in
Kunsan, Cholla Buk Do in May 1947, and spread his school's
reputation from Jun Joo to Kunsan, I Ri, Nam Won, Jung Uep and
more.

During the Korean War, the Choson Yun Moo Kwan's name was
changed to Jidokwan. After CHUN Sang Sup was kidnapped to
North Korea, the Jidokwan (Wisdom Way School) was opened and
ran by YOON Kwe Byung and LEE Chong Woo until 1967.
However, through the process of unification with the Korea Tae
Soo Do Association, the Jidokwan had conflicts between YOON
Kwe Byung and LEE Chong Woo. Led by LEE Chong Woo
(Jidokwan), LEE Nam Suk (Chang Moo Kwan), UHM Woon Kyu
(Chung Do Kwan), HYUN Jong Myun (Chung Do Kwan/Oh Do
Kwan) and others planned to unify, but YOON Kwe Byung and
HWANG Kee (Moo Duk Kwan) declined and persisted with their
independent promotion test committee.

 

Interesting stuff.

I agree that Judo is great but it needs fundemental concept changes (from the mainstream sport) for the groundfighting to transpose into self defence. In particular the perceived safety of the Turtle position and the emphasis on pinning. But that's only an opinion. And abscence/infrequency of natural mount position.

 

You are right Kickcatcher. The arts that have a sport emphasis on them can have their quirks...but all arts can. I don't believe there is really any fool proof plan. I think what every student should realize is that their body works differently than every one else, so the art is a bit unique to each person. Each person has to adapt their learnings to what works for them.

I had an instructor that always said, learn as much as you can and what works for you because in the end, it is not the thousands of techniques that will save our ass but usually just a few.

I always liked the K.I.S.S. thought...keep it simple stupid.

 

Take what you've learn and now think out of the box. Read around the subject and train in styles like kenpo, ninjutsu and stick fighting. Then apply what you've seen to TKD. It's there.

 

I have a friend who just came from Korea and he told me that there is another type of TKD that is taught specifically for real life situations. He didn't know too much about it but some of his friends have tried it and they told him it was scary as sh*t.

 

IMO TKD does not work very well on the street to say it nice.

I'll just assume that in the average streetfight you don't get to do a warmup and jeans are also not very usefull for highkicks.
Most blocks don't work well, especially if you start of with your hands down. You're not trained for punches to the head, not trained for impact, not trained for closer distance (IMO TKD can only work at large distance).
I've heard nice theories about how 1 kick would break a rib because it can break a thin wooden board, but just look at full-contact events: very unlikely to happen.
So basically: not very usefull on the street

 

Even my instructor told me that TaeKwonDo kicks are only for the Dojo. For street fighting scenarios, he told me to shin kick (something not taught in taekwondo) to the thigh to lower their guard and so you won't lose balance. And my GrandMaster said kick them in a groin :Angel: Tae Kwon Do does help in a way, you are used to reacting, but not as much as maybe boxing.

 

Okay, I think I've said this before prob on this very thread and I'll say it again. If you're judging all TKD by what you see at certain competitions or from what people say, then you're grossly over generalizing. It's not like TKD started out as sporting art and not all schools treat it as a sporting art. My first TKD instructor who spent years and years as a Brooklyn street cop intergrated what worked for him in those skirmishes. He always said, if you want to kick somoene in the head, kick them in the balls, when and if the head comes down, then kick them in the head.

TKD is not all high kicks, it's known for having those spectacular high kicks, but if a TKD practioneer can pull off those high kicks, his or her low kicks will be that much faster and stronger.

Hands down? That's only certain TKD sparring circles that do that. I've never put my hands down during sparring or on the streets and in the TKD schools I've attended, you'd get your head knocked off by either a punch to the head or a kick to the head. And believe me, at least in my experience, if you did put your hands down, you might just get knocked out...seen it over and over again.

I'm still not sure if judging an art by what you see in competitions is a fair judge of what will happen in the streets.

OSU, I see you're a karate practioneer. Well, the same generalizations made for TKD can be made for karate. Most of the karate I have seen spends a lot of time doing hard outside blocks and hard down blocks with all your power involved and when striking they bring the arm back to their hips to release that mighty reverse punch. Would you guys do that on the street? I think not. I've seen the Goju people stand with their toes pointed inward, would they stand that way in a street fight? I think not.

At the basics, the blocks are taught with exagerated movements. In the outside block, you bring your arm up to where your fist is in front of your face and you swing it outward to where it is parallel with your ear. Okay, so does anyone really think that we'd have time to do that in the street? No. It's only done that way so you can get the correct position and movement, from there it gets shortened up and becomes faster.

I don't know about all TKD schools but mine have spent more time working on kicks against knees and shins and foot stomps and striking. Most TKD practioneers will realize there is a difference between tournament and street.

In going to open tournaments, I've seen kung fuists, TKDists, Karatekas, etc all do things that they wouldn't do on the streets. We realize this is a different animal. Those that go to ITF and open tournaments don't wear chest protectors...so you better be ready to take a body shot, the head is a perfectly legal target, so be ready to get hit in the head.

I guess until you have spent time in a TKD school and I don't mean a couple classes, then it's best not to make generalizations. It'd be like me saying I saw a couple karate guys and you know, all karate is the same, and they did this and that and so all karate is like that...which as most of us know is completely wrong.

Go spend some time at an ITF school and then go spend some time at a WTF school and then go spend some time at an UTSA school and etc and you will see quite a bit of difference in the way classes are conducted and what they concentrate on.

 

I spar in my jeans it's no problem for my kicks. I don't kick high in street fights but I can kick high with my jeans on. We keep are hands up and our blocks work fine. We block and strike at the same time. We train to punch in the face and anywhere on the head is a striking surface. I can keep punchers at a distance with no problem but I'm also good at punches. We mix with bjj so we are also good on the ground. One kick can break a ribs and has happened in my dojang. When I was doing kenpo I have won one fight with just front kicks. Never down play kicks. They are longer and stronger than punches. That is the advantage of kicks. If kicking fails then I have punches, kness and elbows if you want to get up close with me. I am fast on my hands and fast on my feet. I am a huge fan of elbows so would love somone to get in close for elbow range. It doesn't happen often in sparring unless I close in.

 

First off, Osu, face facts 99% of MA are not effective in the street. Still you've had some of your misconceptions (e.g. No hand striks to the head at all) about TKD answered in another thread, why are you still clinging on to them?

Secondly, I point you all to my first interjection of this thread.

Would all posters please ensure they have read the entire thread before posting. That way old arguments don't get re-hashed again and again thank you pleash .

This has been a nice friendly reminder,

From your friendly neighbourhood Topic Mod

Tosh