Tae Kwon Do any Good on the Street

Discussion in 'Tae Kwon Do Resources' started by Jackie Li, Feb 12, 2004.

  1. Kframe

    Kframe Valued Member

    Now Ill be very honest, it may have just been that place. I don't know what other MMA places are like. Their may be other places that have a different training style ill actually enjoy. As I explore my cross training options ill find out.

    I did spend a few months in a hybrid place. It was karate/mma. Basically we did karate deflections with boxing and muay thai thrown in and some submission wrestling. It was there I fell in love with deflections with evasion. To bad it went out o business as well.

    Besides, im not training for a fight with someone else. Right now the biggest fight I have is my self and I have to beat that guy in the mirror before I can beat anyone else.
  2. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Can't argue with that. I can't stand boxing training. It's JUST SO MONETENOUS. I don't know how the fighters do it.
  3. Remi Lessore

    Remi Lessore Valued Member

    tkd fighting

    As people have said, WTF sports TKD is not so useful for SD. But TKD is not just sports. I do not think they would waste their time with it in the South Korean Army if it were.
    I found the transition to KM difficult because of the jerkiness that I carried over from TKD SD teaching, but that was my fault. Some of my instructors in TKD were tough individuals who had done door-work and could have a row, and attested to their KKW TKD in real situations.

    As a KM instructor I have found that people coming from ITF adapted more quickly to what were were doing and that is probably due to their more KB-type training resembling FEKM Krav Maga.
    I also found one ex KKW TKD student in particular, once he had learned to use his hands, become an absolute handful in sparring.
    Look at this fellow for example : a TKDist (I think ITF, but I am not sure) who also learned to box. I would not like to spend any time fighting him.

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIHpMWjZQ1c"]Turkish Samurai K-1 World Max vol 2 [HQ] - YouTube[/ame]

    However, when he ventured into MMA he was initially flummoxed by the grappling. I don't know if he overcame this with more training.
    Still, as you dad said, street fighting and sparring are not quite the same, though sparring skills could certainly be a huge advantage.

    Personally, I found TKD brilliant for fitness (though mind the wear and tear on your hips),
    and, having now done KM for a few years I also see that TKD could be very good for SD, if understood in the right way.
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2014
  4. mdgee

    mdgee Valued Member

    I find ITF TKD to be far more effective on the street since it is a martial art as compared to WTF TKD which is considered a sport. ITF is the original martial art as defined by General Choi and it was used for self defense. The kicks in ITF aren't as high. Most don't come up higher then the lower belt area up to the chest area but they are just as effective. Oh, and there's more hand involvement in ITF too. This is just my observation. I know that the WTF TKD that is taught in Korea still teaches a bit more for self defense and will often borrow from the ITF syllabus.
  5. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    I would think TKD in Korea is better training
  6. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    How long have you trained in ITF TKD and how have the training methods fitted the generics of the style to SD?

  7. mjl

    mjl ITF Taekwon-Do (1st Dan)

    I have to disagree with that. Kicks in ITF are head-height; we practice them every week, not that I have the flexibility yet to score one unless they're the height of a 6 year old ;)
  8. mdgee

    mdgee Valued Member

    South Korean Army still uses ITF forms created by General Choi. I'm told that even the WTF schools in Korea focus more on self defense and do include some of the syllabus for ITF.
  9. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    On contrary. I was "told" that the Army uses very little "forms" and more exercise in lu of. The "so-called forms" are basic without recognition of ITF. Furthermore, TKD in Korea uses/trains much more self defense in the syllabus without the distinction of a org (ITF/WTF)

    For the general public, it is a national sport (like basketball, baseball, etc.)

    For the military, it is far from distinction of being recognized as ITF, WTF, or any other org
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2014
  10. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    So yet again you are stating something categorically that you have no idea is actually true or not
  11. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    This is because, like many hyped martial arts, to show a "military tie" shows promise of a worthy art

    Some people keep incorrectly believing that martial arts equals military training (like in past millennium).
  12. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    True, a lot of people equate being in the Army to being able to fight.
  13. mdgee

    mdgee Valued Member

    Hannibal, actually, I'm 96% sure what I stated is true. A very close friend of mine was in the Korean Army. He told me that they all learned ITF TKD because it's not flashy and very effective. He didn't say more effective but he told me very effective. Mind you, he's in his 60's so It's possible the Army is now teaching WTF. I don't know. I do know that when he served, which was more then 40 years ago, he learned ITF TKD. And he's still alive to verify it. Just not on MAP.
  14. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    So what was originally a definitive statement you made ("ITF is more str33t r34lz") has now become 'I don't know and cannot confirm but someone said that what they did was actually good"

  15. Kframe

    Kframe Valued Member

    I read on another forum that most South Korean TKD you will see on street corners is mostly sport TKD. Consisting of Forms then paddle work and then sparring for the majority of class's with little to no Self defense and step sparring.

    Cant remember exactly how I found that thread, but it had something to do with training in korea and those who did it, chimed in on how different it is. The jist of the thread was that nearly all of the dojang there were focused on sport tkd and did none of the trappings of American SD tkd. Namely Step sparring and Hoshinsul.

    Ill see if I can dig it up. Give me some time and ill see if I can find it.
  16. mdgee

    mdgee Valued Member

    Hannibal, can any of us prove anything with absolute certainty? You could tell me that you, for example, took the trash out this morning at 8:23 am. How do I know this is, or is not true? Just because someone writes something in a book doesn't make it true or false.

    Let me give you an example. I am a Jew. I know from oral tradition what happened during the Holocaust. I know, from my grandfather, and from uncles and aunts, who died during the Holocaust and how they died. Now you can tell me I only have word of mouth. I wasn't there and I didn't see them during their last few seconds of life. We have no definitives in life except that we are born and we die.
  17. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Balance of probabilities is one way to temper claims. The problem is you are making extraordinary claims that are neither backed by evidence or experience yet you feel qualified to throw them out as advice when they in essence regurgitated hearsay. Now you are using the same tired lame ass get out clause that is oft trotted out when this is pointed out to people

    If you had started with "I was tld" or "Rumour has it" then we know that it is an unverified fact. But you didn't - you made a polemic statement and have now been called on said polemecism. You did the same thing when you posted a completely inaccurate statement in the Ju Jutsu thread

    Enthusiasm is great but don't mistake that for knowledge or experience. The plural of anecdote is never evidence, especially here on MAP. If you stake a claim back it up with facts or cogency not rhetoric and excuses
  18. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    I've seen some "American SD TKD" in a thread here on MAP.


  19. Kframe

    Kframe Valued Member

  20. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    That's why textual sources and peer reviewed sources are so valuable, regardless of you learning from oral tradition you could also look to textual sources of other cultures or people to corroborate what was said. You could go further and look to material culture and remains, if you had the resources.

    So yes while you might learn of one thing via an oral source there are many ways to check the validity of that source.

    It's not hard to do this sort of thing and certainly on internet discussions there is virtually no excuse for not backing up your claims with something concrete.
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2014

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