Steroids and early MMA

Discussion in 'MMA' started by ShadowHawk, Aug 17, 2014.

  1. ShadowHawk

    ShadowHawk Valued Member

    No UFC event in the 90s was truly intricate with the testing. Also each event was held in a random backyard state of the USA, one was even in puerto rico !

    Mark Kerr basically opened the can of worms when he went on camera the Documentary Smashing Machine , where he admitted his first 2 UFC tournament championship wins were done under the use of illegal narcotic drugs to numb pain during fight, and he was obviously on Steroids as was his friend Marc Coleman.

    Pride then started to drug test in the early 2000s since Kerr got totally out of shape then kicked out of Pride. I think they just tested for substances as narcotic drugs not steroids or human growth hormone, which i suspect Marc Coleman stayed on for a long while.

    Kimo was an obvious California steroid thug that heard of the UFC and was an early MMA "worldwide" star. He fought in UFC gained his fame and moved on to many Japanese organizations, only beating cans for the most part. Cant bully your way around the worlds greatest fighters.

    Kerr started his career 12-0 worldwide, Brazil, USA then Japan. Enson Inoue , a legend in Japan, was Kerrs last win on his 4 year win streak where he was fueled by illicit drugs and steroids. He wouldnt heed Bas Ruttens advice and probably could not kick the dope, so he stopped taking the steroids , training and kept using drugs.

    Coleman raging after tapping out (warning language)

    Video removed due to profanity. It doesn't add to the discussion anyway.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 17, 2014
  2. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Things were a lot less professional then, nowadays of course the steriod use is much more professionaly done and the weight training et al is less bodybuilding based, which leads us onto epo useage and suchforth.
     
  3. Bobby Gee

    Bobby Gee Valued Member

    The fighters that get done for steroids seem to lose their fights..haha doesn't seem to help them much.
     
  4. Combat Sports

    Combat Sports Formerly What Works

    Royce Gracie vs. Kazushi Sakuraba 2.
     
  5. LemonSloth

    LemonSloth Laugh and grow fat!

    A-yup.

    Though even then there were a fair few people that questioned if Gracie should have been given the fight even before his PED results came in.
     
  6. ShadowHawk

    ShadowHawk Valued Member

    What was graciie on? He had some epic battles with sakuraba
     
  7. callsignfuzzy

    callsignfuzzy Is not a number!

    It's "Mark" Coleman. Not Marc.

    Kimo was a Hawaiian "thug". Actually a football player. Did alright at the junior college level. Also wrestled in high school. He lost three of his first four UFC bouts, with a total record of 2-4 in that organization. The losing beating he put on Royce basically made his MMA career. That said, for their time, Pat Smith, Brian Johnston, and Tank Abbott were not "cans".

    Just a few points to correct, or that I disagree with.

    There were clearly steroids in early MMA events. They're there now, although the testing is more rigorous. The victories guys like Kerr and Coleman had, had more to do with the fact that they were Olympic-level wrestlers. Kerr's problems weren't steroids, they were painkillers. And, frankly, not a real desire to be a fighter. His wins were impressive, but he didn't really seem to enjoy anything except the grappling.
     
  8. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    when there's money involved, there's always the temptation to gain an edge. until testing has real teeth and consequences, guys are still going to do it.
     
  9. LemonSloth

    LemonSloth Laugh and grow fat!

    Some type of anabolic steriod called Nandrolone (?) I think. He was on such high levels for his second fight that I don't think the lab machines could actually read how much was in his system (I think the suggestion was something crazy like 25 times more than the average Joe would produce - active people produce more but still nowhere near that much).

    He denied it of course but I don't think anyone believes him.
     
  10. ShadowHawk

    ShadowHawk Valued Member

    ^all of south america has anabolics over the counter. injectable and pill form. No surprise.

    I agree None of the above mentioned fighters were cans, I just remember Kimo being part of the Joe Son crew. Nuff said
     
  11. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    that's correct. one can get them in mexico too and i think they should be legal in the usa. i personally have no problem that some guy wants to get ripped to get babes on the beach, or for some other self-improvement or self image. whatever. my problem and i think a lot of other people's is in the competitive arena, whatever that competition may be. sadly, until the punishment has teeth, guys are still going to do it and take the chance. at a minimum, olympic-level punishment needs to be implemented: first offense, 2 year ban; second offense, lifetime.
     
  12. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    There prescription only as you can really mess up your endocrine system as well as being carcinogenic and terrible for mental health.

    its because there abused so much, they dont get used for valid conditions
     
  13. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    yes, there are risky side effects, as with any drug. but why do i care what someone else puts into their own body? do i really care that bob in venice beach wants to get jacked and that he's risking getting man boobs?

    i suppose my attitude around all drugs is the same. why are we regulating whatever people want to put in their body? and before you say "it's dangerous", nicotine and alcohol are both legal largely throughout the world.

    i'm just throwing out my own thoughts. i'm not debating what you've said in your post fusen.
     
  14. ShadowHawk

    ShadowHawk Valued Member

    I only feel passionately against steroids in the fight world. Where its one on one combat mesaured down to the weight class, every single fiber in each of your muscles count. They count in each strike, grapple, or explosive move you pull off. I feel olympic bannings should be taking place . Chael should never have had a 3rd or 4th chance.

    I took anabolics High School while playing american football because after 3 years of weight lifting i could not break 135lbs , in the first week i jumped to 150 and have not been under since. I got some gyno and luckily got rid of it through use of other 'medicines' dont know what is legal or illegal anymore, all i know is if your over 35 in the USA you can now be perscribed testoserone and HGH. i was a grade ahead all my life so i was a year younger than everyone in High School, a year is a lifetime in teen years especially in sports. I should have just failed 9th grade on purpose
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2014
  15. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    If a ggovernment doesnt maintain medical standards, you will endup with no healthcare system and a rampant public health problem.

    Also purely from a capitalist viewpoint, No prescription control means no prescription drug manufacture which means a lot of dead citizens.

    if you want a modern productive country, you need the social infrastructure to maintain it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2014
  16. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    Those are only the ones that are busted... recall a few guys in MMA saying that 85-90% of all fighters are using.
     
  17. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    I'm glad this subject was brought up, as I have done a whole lot of reading on the subject.

    Part of the biggest problem is the cost of testing. A CIR test isn't cheap, and full testing can run into the 10's of thousands for some... which in MMA is more than many of those guys are making for their fights. Go onto some steroid forums and there is a dedicated section to boxing, MMA, wrestling, etc. All kinds of info on how to beat the tests, what to use, for how long, etc. The guys/girls who get caught using are likely the stupid ones... but there are many who are experts on the subject (just because they don't have a degree doesn't mean they don't know exactly what they are doing and how to do it). Just take a look at Lance Armstrong... to my knowledge they still never actually "caught" him, he took the easy way out after Travis Tygart (USADA)kept on his trail for years and years so before getting caught he just decided it was easier to take the easy way out.

    Another part of the problem is the T/E ratio has to be within certain limits... they allow I believe 6:1... normal men can be as high as 4:1 in more rare cases, with 1:1 being more the norm. 6:1 means they are still cheating, just within the confines of the rules.

    The NFL is no different. There's a lot of money that is made and to be made in sports and though there's a lot of tough talk... very little is done to remedy the situation.
     
  18. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    Dr. Ferrari (The exercise physiologist who worked as armstrong's coach) was a bit of an evil genius in regard to PED use.
    He used regulated cycles just enough to avoid detection and give armstrong that boost in performance.

    And when new testing regulations came out - he decided that he would pre-empt it, have armstrong train clean and then blood dope mid competition.

    I know of quite a few academics who have expert knowledge of PED use that probably makes it much safer than streaming a bunch of HGH into your butt cheeks with your gym buddy or that guy who competed in a local bodybuilding comp once

    the problem with drug testing is exactly as you say though - its expensive, easy to cover and hard for testing firms to stay ahead of.

    but without testing, we encourage a pharmaceutical (possibly pharma-genetic) race between countries. it still happens now, we just discourage it (without effectively stopping it) and therefore can inspire the clueless masses
     
  19. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    exactly right. if everyone in every sport just used ped's, then what are you testing? are you testing athletic performance, or are you just testing the drug and/or how well that athlete's athletic team can manage the drug? and theoretically, if everyone is on ped, then there's another baseline because everyone is on.

    or have everyone be clean, and have much stronger punishment. because if the punishment isn't strong enough, more and more guys and are going to take that chance. if a lifetime ban isn't implemented, then the punishment doesn't have enough teeth.

    look at alex rodriguez (baseball player for our european friends), sure he got suspended a year. big deal, the guy's already made over $300 million being juiced to the max.
     
  20. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    Steroids for the most part are actually quite safe when all precautions are taken and you're not overdoing it. Of course guys see some progress and think that more is better. As above is mentioned... I really don't have an issue with guys who take it to look better if that's their thing. HGH can be both a miracle and curse with cancer cells it can increase their growth.

    The biggest problem that I see is that anabolics offer so many benefits to people who are sick, in pain, lost muscle due to injury, etc. Much like marijuana though, it's not "politically correct" thus not legal (though most are getting the idea that weed isn't the monster it has been made out to be).

    What are they going to do though? Guys are always going to get that little extra edge.
     

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