Gentlemen, you might as well be asking why one group of hip-hop kids wears their ball caps backwards and another wear them to the side. As most of you probably know, Indonesia, though now one country, is made up of many different, even if related, cultures. Over hundreds of years and numerous religious influences different traditions arise in these various cultures. But if you want to go searching for a deeper reason why one island wears it's keris on it's back and another to one side or another you will most likely end up just hurting your brain. There probably was some reason hundreds of years ago, but i highly doubt you will find one now. As for the use of the keris as a weapon, there is clear evidence that when the Chinese first encountered the Javanese in the 14thC that the keris was more than just ceremonial there. But the keris was certainly never intended as a main weapon of war, but more as a person side arm not unlike the European rapier. The rapier is not a weapon one would take into serious battle. Neither was the keris. The Bugis were known to be more likely to actually use their keris as physical weapons and this can probably be seen in the stoutness and general simplicity of their blades. As you can see from the photos provided, the Balinese wore their long blades up their backs with their often bejeweled deity hilts facing foward as if they were sitting on the owner's shoulder (to whisper in the owners ear?). IMO i doubt this was for the purpose of any kind of quick draw as statis keris such as these were probably never drawn for fighting. Though i am sure i will recieve argument here, but the keris as a traditional fighting blade that has traditional (more than a hundred or so years) martial forms seems highly unlikely to me. I don't believe i have ever seen any old or ancient text on keris fighting (if you got 'em, smoke 'em boys ). It seems a RELATIVELY recent invention to me. This does NOT mean invalid ot irrelavent, but if we are trying to connect the reason for wearing positions with martial movement i think we are probably on the wrong track. Even though the keris does have a history of some actual martial use it's statis as a symbol of power and authority has always been stronger. The answers to what position the keris is worn in probably has a whole lot more to do with that then how quickly it can be drawn in battle.
I think the belief that everything in Silat or connected with the use of the keris will be written down in some text is flawed. There are many things which have never been committed to written word, so the belief that if you can’t find it in a book or ancient scroll it must be wrong is a big no no in Silat.
Just blue-skying here, but in a culture where the daily garb was usually a sarong or cotton pants, and much of the sitting was done not in chairs but by squatting on one's heels, then the notion of the back-carry would make perfect sense. The keris is there, but not in the way during normal movement. Once you start to sit in chairs with backs, having your keris behind you gets to be more of a problem. You either have to pull it around to the side -- front carry wouldn't be comfortable while sitting in a chair, either unless you angle the sheath considerably -- or remove it from your shash. People who carry handguns have different positions for the same practical reasons -- small-of-the-back is great if you are walking around, but not comfortable or accessible if you are driving a car or sitting on a bus for any distance. There may have been some status that evolved with the positioning, but I would guess it came from the practical. The keris is not the most practical of weapons, for several reasons, and the ceremonial/magical aspects of it have been more important for at least the last hundred and fifty years. (For those of you who don't know, the handles of many Javanese and some Balinese kerises are held on with a twist of cloth or, traditionallly, a wrap of hair from a virgin woman. Stick the blade into something solid and pull on the handle, there is a fair chance the handle will come off in your hand. Not so with a golok, which is designed for real use.) Also, the handles of Balinese blades can represent deities or human figures because that culture was more hindu or buddhist; Islam doesn't like portrayals of such things in art, hence the seven-plane "fever man" handle, which is not recognizably human, seen on many blades from elsewhere.
Certainly you are correct. Not EVERYTHING is written down, ever.....however, one would think that in a culture that does have a long history of the written word that SOME mention of a cultural icon such as the keris being used in the regional martial art would appear somewhere in ancient text. We are not talking about just any weapon here, but one of great spiritual and cultural importance to it's people. If it was used in Silat 200 or 300 years ago or more and had specific forms and movements it seems likely that someone would have committed that information to paper (or leaf ). Perhaps they did, but i am not aware of it. Does anybody on this forum have such information? Steve, i am afraid your theory only works with the Balinese style of wear as Javanese wear them low to the rear and Bugis keris are general worn to the front in the belt. You are right about the method of attachment being problematic for practical use as a weapon, but the use of hair (not necessarily a virgin woman BTW) is a relatively modern tradition, say late 18th-early 19thC. When a more secure fit is needed pitch was often used which can be fairly secure when hardened. But ultimately your thought is correct that the keris is not the most ideal weapon for martial arts, another indication that it's use in Silat is a relatively new one.
Nechesh, the only thing that gives me a little pause are accounts of the keris being used as a weapon in what is now Indonesia and Malaysia back in the 18th and early 19th centuries by foreign observers. I don't have them on tap at the moment, but I remember reading accounts of British and Portugese observers who saw them being used in battle - mostly conflicts with local pirates. Perhaps they were a secondary weapon used only when the better ones were gone or broken. Maybe they were somewhat sturdier ones than what we see now. Could be that the writers called all big crooked knives "keris".
The question in my mind is not whether keris were used as practical weapons or not. I think they were, though certainly not by 18thC Javanese where the keris had become a non-physical weapon by that time. But the Bugis were known for their use of the keris and did make stouter blades to that purpose. Certainly the sword length Moro kris was (still is) quite an effective weapon. What i am questioning is whether or not there is any evidence of an actual martial form for the keris in the context of Silat that is anymore than a hundred years old. In other words, a martial art form with specific moves and actions as is taught today by certain Silat schools. My feeling is that this is a relatively modern invention and that there are no taught martial art keris forms that date back to ancient Indonesia.
Yes Tellner, and particularly the Bugis (Boogeymen!) who used a wider weapon the Sundang for slashing and the badek for stabbing. I believe the Sundang and Moro Kris are very similar. Many weapons in many cultures develop symbolicaly, more so when there practical use becomes superceeded by more 'modern' weapons. For instance most British regiments still carry swords for ceremonious duties.
Thanks for the clarification, guys. It reminds me of the kujang. I've seen old museum-pieces that were large, strong and well suited as weapons. Later examples were small, thin and wouldn't stand up to combative use. Obviously, they had evolved into something more symbolic or spiritual.
Keris Lore Thanks, I appreciate your response, though I think you make my point. While the keris might have once been a useable weapon, and can certainly still be made to work as one in a pinch, in the last hundred and fifty or so years, the keris has been more ceremonial than not. Soon as they started keeping the handles on with cloth or hair, whenever that became common, then it would seem apparent they didn't think they were going to be doing any heavy stabbing. Modern keris lore seems to allow that the furniture -- handle and sheath and adornments (selut, mendak) -- are to be kept relatively fresh, upgraded from time-to-time as they become worn. So changing the dress would be made easier with the friction-hold handles; removing one glued-on would be harder. I am privileged to own several kerises -- Javanese, Balinese, and a couple from the Malay Peninsula. Most of them are less than a hundred years old. The oldest of them dates from the late 1700's. All of them have cloth- or hair-twist to keep the handles on. All of the older ones have relatively new furniture, and most of them feature the seven-plane handle with small cecekan (carved, kala-like faces.) Given the complexities of luk and pamor, (waves and patterns in the steel) it seems apparent to me that the ceremonial/magical aspects of the keris have been more important than the dagger as a weapon for a long time. There are books written about the many varied patterns in the steel -- Tammis did a three-volume set -- and as has been pointed out, fighting styles using the keris would likely be a) very old or b) fairly new.
I remember the first time I picked up a keris I thought "what a beautifully crafted knife" but at the same time thinking "boy I would hate to have to go into battle just with this". The blade itself is quite large compared to the tiny steel rod which secures it to the handle. I can imagine the blade flying out of the handle or the handle splitting leaving you in the middle of a battle field just holding a handle. I think the keris was never intended as a primary weapon in battle but more as a talisman or magic charm. Considering all the storys and myths about the keris I am left with one word which I think sums up the keris and its use fairly accurately, WAND. It seams to me that a keris is/was all ways valued as more of a spiritual weapon than a weapon for physical combat. Personally I think in battle the keris would be worn on the back whilst the primary weapon or weapons would be worn on the side, being faster to draw.
salam, to my knowledge, the duel between Hang Tuah and Hang Jebat used keris as weapons..one of the main weapon then was keris Taming Sari (which is still seeked till this day)..and this was said to happen centuries ago, during the kingdom of Kesultanan Melayu Melaka..i think almost every malaysians know this story. there's a saying "kenal gerak, kenal senjata", which means a lil' bit something like this,"know the movements, n u'll know the weapon"..maybe if someone can translate that better .. seeing is believing..i guess unless until we see it with our own two eyes of how the the masters are using keris in a real fight/duel, then there will always be disbelief about the practicallity of keris in a real fight..till then, happy searching!
No doubt about the Moro Kris. There's plenty of good history of them being used as primary weapons in war. And every single example I have is sturdy enough to stand up to some serious abuse.
Steve, i don't think this lore is particularly modern. Given the climate and general usage wooden sheaths tend to wear and crack fairly easily. It has always been thought direspectful to the keris to keep it in damaged dress. I don't believe it was ever the tradition to permanently glue hilts on. As i mentioned, pitch was sometimes used, but it is fairly easy to remove with a bit of heat. Pitch, for those who don't know, is a natual resinous material that hardens when it dries. I have only encountered one keris in my collection that used pitch (i have since removed it) and believe me, that blade wasn't about to fly off the handle even in fierce battle. But a bit of heat to the blade softened up enough to remove the hilt. In my mind there is little doubt that the keris was designed as a fighting tool, but certainly not every bladed weapon has a long history of martial arts movements tied to them. Very early reports of Chinese encounters with the Javanese (14th-15thC) tell of every man and even young boys on the island both carried keris and used them often in arguments. The Chinese reporter tells of people being stabbed every day with keris. It was used as a personal side arm not unlike the rapier in Europe. Like the rapier was effective against another rapier, so the keris was against another keris. If a martial form did develop around the keris at this time i have serious doubts that it is the same form that is presently taught in silat today. It seems the keris may have moved into it's nonfighting phase in Jawa sometime after the establishment of Islam (which is not to say it didn't have spiritual and status context before that) at the end of the Mojopahit kingdom. Very little actual knowledge exists today about the specifics of the Mojopahit and it's customs in regards to keris. We can make certain guesses based on what we know about later periods in Bali that laid claim to Mojopahit's traditions, but even this infomation is skewed by time and cultural differences. I am afraid that without the invention of a time machine much is lost to the past forever. Frankly Asli, i tend to take the stories of Hang Tuah and Hang Jebat and other legends such as flying keris as metaphor and therefore with a grain of salt. These are stories, not unlike the parables of Christ, are meant to teach, but their factual history stands somewhat on shaky ground. I'll bet two masters really can go at it with keris in hand in quite effective ways, but this hardly proves the art is ancient. I would imagine a keris can be a very good weapon pitted against another keris, but against any number of superior fighting blades the story would be different.
like i said, seeing is believing..beliefs are just our personal prefence..it varies from one person to another..some belief in christ, some dont..some belief hang tuah was real, some dont..it's a matter of preference.. maybe we should do more researches on the characteristic of the malay weapons..for every shape, there's a reason.differenciate the weapon that are used in battle and the weapons that r used in agriculture.the characteristic are so different..why the malay weapons are not so sharp yet not so blunt but still is deadly..if it's too sharp, than it's not considered as a true malay weapon, yet still a weapon, because of the different characteristic.
Yep, seeing is believing.....so can you tell us what you've seen Asli? Understand, i am not doubting the historical existence of Hang Tuah and Hang Jebat, or even that they battled, but it has become the stuff of legends and it is our human nature to exaggerate out heros. Did George Washington ever chop down a cherry tree or throw a silver dollar across the Potomac River. I doubt it. Even the more "historically accurate" accounts of his exploits as a great general are recently being brought into question. We create the heros we need for the times regardless of actual truth. I am not questioning whether or not this is a good or bad thing, but i am unwilling to believe that a keris could fly in battle and strike down an enemy based on legend and folk lore. There are truths to be found in them, but they are generally metaphorical. BTW, i have many true Malay keris in my collection and a couple of them are actually quite sharp, especially a rather formitable 19thC Balinese blade i own. Most do not have real edge sharpness as the keris is a stabbing weapon, not a slashing one, but you do occassional run across it.
I beleive pendekar sanders has a book out on keris,you can also get training material from him on subject..fighting with keris etc **************** I respect Mr. Sanders knowledge in Silat, we are agree on many issue and disagree on other, and most of all on the use of keris. My dad gave me a family keris went I went to the USA in the early'68. For us, in our tradition, keris is not a weapon of choice for combat. Keris is a symbol of family lineage. I've studied many silat/japanese weapons, but not keris. My Uncle said: Keris was never use for combat! PERIOD! Many people in Indonesia belief some keris is posses, spiritual, or have jin, etc. They do made a celebration with it, gave them a bath with flowers so on. I do respect my keris, I took good care of it as I took good care of my Shinto sword. And I could be wrong too, Tristan
Tristan, i don't believe that you are wrong or even that your Uncle lied to you about the use of the keris in Jawa. I think it is more complicated than that. Jawa has moved through a few cultural changes since the Mojopahit period, religious influence being only one factor. The way the keris has been used and percieved in Jawa has not remained the same over the centuries. That your uncle believes the keris was NEVER used as a fighting instrument in Jawa PERIOD! is quite common within the later and current cultural structure of the island, but written accounts from Mojopahit times tell a different story. While even written accounts of the time could (and probably do) contain inaccuracies, mostly due to a misunderstanding of meeting a new culture, it seems unlikely to me that the passages which describe observations of Jawanese fighting with their keris would be made up or be some kind of cultural misunderstanding. When Islam took over in Jawa many who were not in agreement fled to Bali where to a certain extent the Mojopahit influences continued and Hinduism flourished. Still Bali was not Jawa and had it's own indigineous cultural influences to add. And over the years that culture evolved and change as well. It seems that everywhere the keris developed it had it's own subtle and slightly different traditions. But it also seems unlikely to me that it would begin in Jawa as a purely spiritual tool only to be taken up as a physical weapon (even if not the primary one) by the Balinese and the Bugis.
I agree with you in general, since I remembered watching wayang kulit, wayang orang and ketoprak where keris is being use for fight to the death. You may be right about the religious influenced. My Dad and Uncle have somewhat blood connection to Kraton in Jogyakarta. To my knowledge, keris is a symbol of class system instead of combative tools, can it be use for combat? of course. But as far as combative tool, it is hard to determine the effectiveness nor they have been used in combat. I was born in Jakarta, I saw many old pictures where the soldiers riding a horse with tombak or pedang and have keris in his back. Or the foot soldiers with long weapons. I have not seen description where the warriors use keris in a war. My Dad and my Uncle's teacher, and his teacher's teacher, and his teacher's teacher's teacher (is that such a word?) Never learn keris fighting nor teach any. So it may be is just in our family system that we don't learn keris fight. And I could be wrong too, Tristan
