Sport or Martial Art?

Another good example of an art which is generally more sportive than martial.

Hannibal is probably one of the most rational people here. I'd pick your words a little more carefully.

 

This is turning out exactly how discussions about this distinction always go.

There is no meaningful distinction between sports and martial arts, the only time this distinction is raised is when people want to point out why their favourite martial arts are evidently so much better than the ones they don't like.

A person's personality, physicality and training will define their success in a confrontation, not whether someone decides that they train in a "sport" or not.

 

Unfortunately I think you're right...

I like both sides of the coin, and also have no issue in saying I do this for sport, or I do this for reality, or I do this to maintain tradition.

It shocks me that people don't seem to be comfortable enough with themselves to do this, and have to resort to 'My dad can beat up your dad!'

 

I'm not saying he's not rational, or have any agenda with him - but do disagree heartily with the comments he made, and the fact it resorted to 'this is better than this'... when I there is always more to it than that when it comes to winning real fights...

 

I see more reality in a week than you probably do in a year. Also as you have no all idea about what I actually study beyond a cursory glance at my profile

You claim Iaido is an art because the focus is cutting so by extension boxing is an art because the focus is on hitting. The distinction is weak and does not hold up to scrutiny. Is pistol target shooting a martial art? Biathlon?

I could not help laugh at loud at the "deadliest fighters in the world" having no training myth...it's nonsense espoused by those with limited experience. They are not more dangerous in anything other than mindset in the vast majority of cases. They also drop like a stone when they face an equal mindset with better skill

This would have been a longer response but on an iPhone I cannot be as thorough as I would like

 

I've said it before, but the argument that something is merely a sport because you're training in a rules-based environment is deeply flawed. WE'RE ALL training in a rules-based environment. You've never once cut a man down with a katana. I'd guess you've never gouged someone in the eye or kicked them in the jumblies in training either. Your entire training experience is based on rules. All of ours are. It only makes sense.

We're no more training for battle than a boxer or nak muay. All training is an approximation.

So you weren't asking about the relative merits of each. But if both are rules-based and both are an abstraction of actual battle, what really makes one martial and the other not martial?

It's not a useful distinction.

 

Sport or art is meaningless simply because it has no benefit to the classification

If what you do achieves the end for which you do it then that is the only measure - which is exactly what I said the first time round

 

You've lost me.

 

I'm comfortable calling what I do "Combat Sports". Other than the Kali/JKD, which I try to incorporate into my Combat Sports.

 

I think we can all advocate that a person is better off training for what they want to be successful in though right?
So if you want SD a sport martial art will only get you so far and miss out some stuff you need?
Iain Abernethy did something called the martial map and is a big advocate of training being geared towards what you want to achieve rather than just training and hoping or assuming what you do will have cross over (when it might not).

 

Please don't do this Kobudo. It cheapens your points, insinuating that anyone who disagrees with you is "uncomfortable with themselves" rather than simply holding a different view. Stand on the merits of your own arguments.

 

Actually, I didn't even have a cursory glance at your profile, your conduct in this thread tells all that is needed - you attempted to do the very thing you accused the thread of being about, and made a dig at non sport martial arts, saying that sport is better - represent!!!

You asked my opinion on Iaido, I gave it, end of story - I've never studied Iaido so can't ever give more than my opinion... I'm not sure what you want from me? You also didnt read/understand the full post, as I went on to say in this day and age the martial aspect is lost...... so your likeness to boxing proves which point? I'd already said the I don't consider it Martial?...

Deadliest fighters isn't a myth, its a difference in training, I don't think that the best fighters in the world have never trained any arts, or can't be touched, you've blown my point out of proportion and context.

You posted that someone who trains for sport will beat the snot out of non sport, why? because of the results their training generates? OK, so on the same note, you have someone who doesn't do any martial arts, but for the past 10 years has gone out every Fri and Sat and got into hundreds of punch ups, that is training, they will learn what works, what doesn't, but also have a mindset to cope with the fight, their history suggests a lack of fear of consequences, they have the ability and desire to fight - how many people in the average gym or traditional MA have those same traits? Some, granted, but more often people train because they enjoy it without ever intending to get into a real fight. That's why sport or traditional doesnt denote the outcome of a real situatin.

You said they crumble against someone with the same mindset but better skill, exactly, but it's the mindset that comes first to denote who will win.

Not sure what your issue is?

 

Okay so sport versus martial may not be e best way to term it. I would argue that just as swimming is about staying afloat, moving in the water, and generally not drowning martial arts is primarily about fighting. I think in order for it to be as effective as possible it is best to train in in an environment encumbered by as few rules as possible while still maintaining adequate safety standards.

 

Not anyone that disagrees with me, everyone has the right to their own opinion, and I would never dispute that, but rather anyone who resorts to these kind of arguments...

The thread was what do you classify something as, not which is better, not which would be better in a real fight.

I would stand by my point, if you have to resort to those type of arguments, why??

 

you are a clown

 

this is making me cringe I hope in the 2 pages that I haven't read yet someone has explained the meaning of the word martial to you.

 

My previous post backed up very well - thank you Tout for your intelligent, mature and very insightful input!..

 

If a lot of the distinction is generated by mindset, I guess I struggle with this: When I watch two people performing kenjutsu (for instance), I'm fairly confident that neither one is seriously anticipating that they'll ever be in an actual sword battle. Whereas when one boxer is looking at his opponent across the ring, I'm pretty confident that he knows the other guy is about to walk over and do his level best to leave him unconscious on the floor.

So where does this warrior mindset actually come from?

 

Please enlighten me?

 

The issue is that calling something an "art" it a "sport" is arbitrary at best and meaningless at worst - and achieves nothing...exactly what I said in the first place

Also I don't do a "sport" martial art as my focus son, so bang goes another theory eh?