SPEAR moaning again...

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Whit, Oct 12, 2016.

  1. Whit

    Whit Valued Member

    Yet more allegations from SPEAR that Spartan gear has ripped off their idea.

    http://www.spartantraininggear-scam.com/

    You would have thought they would spend the money on a patent case rather than a trash talk website. Which leads me to think they dont have one.
     
  2. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    They don't have one because Tony may have sketched a design on a napkin, but it was the designer at the now Spartan warehouse that actually designed the gear. When Tony parted company from them to pursue his US contracts they were free to keep improving the product.

    Tony keeps harping on about this and I've noticed that even I've been the subject of rubbish from him. In the ones I've seen he fails to mention that I was a published author on the subjects in which I teach before I even met him, or that my karate system was called DART before I spent a year as part of BTS and they had no objections then. :) Selective memory.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2016
  3. Whit

    Whit Valued Member

    I did look into SPEAR before i did DL as both play on the use of natural instinct.
     
  4. Whit

    Whit Valued Member

    Even wikipedia doesnt like it.

    " It has since been adopted by several military and law enforcement agencies across the world.[citation needed]"
     
  5. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    The use of flinch based responses is common in a number of martial arts and predates Blauer and his training.
     
  6. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    You missed the "tm" off when you mentioned him...... :D
     
  7. Whit

    Whit Valued Member

    Funny thing is i've been hearing some rumours that SPEAR™ is being replaced in the police manuals with something else.
     
  8. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    So far as I'm aware it has because they refused to use his trademarked name or buy into the whole system.
     
  9. Whit

    Whit Valued Member

    Did they not want "metro police - NOW USING S.P.E.A.R™" on the uniforms?
     
  10. Whit

    Whit Valued Member

    I'm just hoping if it's true that DL is getting the Lincolnshire Police contract they don't spray paint them green.
     
  11. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    I hope for LP's sake they're not contracting DL. Too many holes in the important places in that frame when dealing with HAOV in all the videos I've seen.
     
  12. Whit

    Whit Valued Member

    HAOV? I've been hearing rumours of it for a while i'll see if i can track down more info.
     
  13. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Habitual Acts Of Violence
     
  14. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    I don't want to comment on anything I don't have any personal knowledge of, but I can give you some examples from my own personal experience.

    A while ago I was looking to buy some suits and thought about both High Gear and Spartan. I emailed re High Gear and got no response at all. I emailed re Spartan and got the sort of customer service you dream about.

    At one point I was called by Marc Joseph, who also had one of his production team on another line, so we could have a 3 way trans-atlantic conference call just to make sure I go the right sizes for 2 parts of a suit.

    The Spartan kit is excellent in use, and the above is just one example from the many times I've had fabulous customer service from them.

    Mitch
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2016
  15. Whit

    Whit Valued Member

    Like these?

    Male vs. male:

    Push to chest followed by a punch
    Punch (usually a haymaker) thrown without preceding physical technique
    Chest/lapel grab followed by punch
    Two-handed chest/lapel grab followed by headbutt
    Two-handed chest/lapel grab followed by knee to groin
    Bottle, glass, or ashtray to head
    Lashing kick to lower legs
    Stabbing the face with broken bottle/glass
    Side head lock
    Front head lock

    Male (assailant) vs. female:

    Single hand grab of victim's raised wrist, gesticulating with other hand
    Grab of one wrist and the opposite upper arm, victim's arms pointing down
    Victim raises both arms, attacker grabs one wrist in each hand
    Victim's arms are down, attacker grabs both upper arms
    Two hands grab one arm, at wrist and upper arm simultaneously
     
  16. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    Personally I have nothing against any company doing their best to sell their material.

    I am however worried about the systematic jargon that is used within them. Jargon can help to present a particular idea, - monkey dance, or H.O.V but it can give too much weight to an idea changing it from a useful way of beginning to understand a situation into a black and white approach. A language of pseudo science can emerge intended to validate and sell a particular product.

    So for example Habits of violence (as described in the post above) might be called, commonly observed attacks.

    Commonly observed attacks is wishy washy, less definite and doesn't look good in a manual. But it is more open and transparent. It also begs some very important questions - what situations were these attacks observed in? What type of people were being observed? How Representative are the observed attacks to total of all attacks?

    I never read Hegel - too many words - but i believe that he said some important stuff about how language can unintentionally constrain thought.
     
  17. Whit

    Whit Valued Member

    I'm not a fan of TLA's and FLA's or Jargon.
     
  18. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    I used to have a long article up on my wordpress blog on HAOV which was taken from a piece I wrote for Traditional Karate Magazine in 2004. The same information is in my current books.

    Bits of what I've written can be found here:
    https://www.iainabernethy.co.uk/content/violent-crime-hapv-statistics

    I noted in my most recent books that there are lots of different terms floating around, sometimes overlapping in context, sometimes not. I use HAOV to describe aggressive and violent behaviour patterns because in my experience it is the most commonly used and least ambiguous term.

    You might also come across PIA, Monkey Dance (mainly for pre-fight behaviours), HAPV to name a few.
     
  19. Whit

    Whit Valued Member

    I've actually covered most of those in classes. Good list.
     
  20. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    It's bread and butter stuff. What should make up the majority of training in any self defence focused system.
     

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