Some questions for Marc Macyoung

Hi Marc,

I have read your website with interest, and of course, the two threads on this forum in which you have been contributing. I'd like to ask you a couple of questions, which I hope you'll have time to answer.

First off, how do you deal with annoyances in everyday life? We all come into contact with rude/aggressive people now and then, and I'd be curious to know how you manage "difficult" people. Not necessarily people who want to fight, but the sort of jackass that ruins peoples' day with his/her rudeness/bad attitude.

Secondly, what is your philosophy toward confrontation nowadays? What would you fight about/for?

The two questions have some overlap I suppose, but I would like to know how an experienced fellow such as yourself navigates the stressful and tumultous waters of modern life. A life in which we are constantly thrown into contact with complete strangers, some of whom have a world view vastly different to our own.

Thanks,

 

The short answer is ' have more resources.'

For many years I pretty well limited myself to slugging people who ****ed me off. Now that strategy worked very well in certain socio-economic/ethnic areas ... because that's what everyone else did to handle these issues too.

As the years went by, however, I noticed that there were people who
A) weren't targeted by obnoxious/rude people
B) didn't punch other people
C) lived better lives because of A&B

I decided to take notes.

What I found was that these people tended to have better self-images, were more secure about themselves, had better lives/jobs, less conflict and more importantly had FAR better coping skill than just busting someone's jaw when they found themselves in a conflict with someone else. I picked out the most successful of these people and I started studying their strategies and asking them questions.

I soon realized that a huge part of the problem why I was getting into so much violence was ME. Because I was giving off certain 'energies' and conducting myself a certain way, I was not only attracting/ surrounding myself with like-minded people. Worse, a lot of the time I was provoking them. And when that happens ... well, you end up in conflict.

I soon realized that my people skills needed work.

Now mind you at the same time I was also engaging in more and more intense violence (by that time it was my job). I was realizing that there are all kinds of levels of violence and most people don't realize that what they are doing is a gamble. A gamble that the odds are with the house. Sure it might work to achieve their short-term goals, but it WILL have long-term consequences.

Now obviously, if you're being obnoxious and aggressive, you risk getting a smackdown. But, it could also result in you getting killed or in prison if a situation really goes sideways. Except most people who opt for this strategy don't ever look far enough ahead even consider getting slugged for their behavior, much less the obvious long term of dead/prison. Those are too unrealistic to them in light of the more immediate 'achieve my goal with this behavior' attitude.

But something I realized is that the strategies of being rude, verbally violent, obnoxious and confrontational (especially in defense of your own bad behavior) has far more subtle long term consequences ... namely it's a dead end. And you'll end up there and never even know it.

I'm talking about people and society will flush you down the toilet for behaving this way. You end up in a lousy job, isolated from people who know how to behave themselves and surrounded by others who haven't learned this lesson. In other words, until you learn how to behave you'll be shunted off into a 'corner' with other people who also don't know how to behave.

Not a fun place. But what's worse is you end up in a constant loop of self-reinforcement. You think you HAVE to behave this way to protect yourself. But, the more you behave that way the more you become locked into that 'trashcan.' In time, you can't deal with 'normal' people because you're so filled with hate, fear and anger.

Such people are then forever trapped in a living hell of being only surrounded by people like themselves. Once you understand this you start looking at these people differently. They are no longer the big bad ... in fact, they're really kind of pathetic. Because, that's the ONLY strategy they have. They are trapped in a painful existence that they know no way out of.

You ask how I deal with these kinds of people? Simply stated, if this is someone's fundamental approach to life, I don't need them in my life. If having them around means that I would have to put up with that kind of misconduct and abuse, it's a lot easier to get them out of my life.

As of today, I have too many things going for me, too many positive elements in my life to waste time locking horns with these kinds of people. If they want to flush their lives down the toilet, that's their prerogative. I, on the other hand, don't have to allow them into my life.

Does this mean I had to walk away from certain elements of my old life? Yes. There are people who I've had to leave behind. But, if keeping them in my life means putting up with their hateful, bad and selfish behavior, then they aren't worth it.

Relationships are supposed to be a win/win economy. The more you bring to the relationship the higher value you are. The higher value you have, the less important hateful, petty and mean people will be in your life -- and that includes what they think about you.

 

Excellent post, Marc. I would disagree with the last bit in some cases, given that sometimes you have family members, etc. that you stick with out of love, hoping they'll take a turn for the better - and sometimes they do. God knows I can be a royal pain the butt sometimes, but my mom has always stuck with me through these times and guides me out of them. Without her doing this, I probably would have become a real jerk long ago.

 

Humans are social animals, we NEED other humans in order to exist. A big part of living together is that we'll end up in conflict with those we live with. Evolutionary psychologists estimate that we are designed to function in groups of about 150. In light of this, humans have biological/instinctive patterns to deal with those 'inside' our tribe and different patterns to those 'outside' our tribe.

Obviously, living in a city means that we are dealing with a lot more people than 150. Now popular 'politically correct' thinking tells us that we should be getting together and singing kumbaya ... 'cept that ain't likely to happen. This especially because there are people who look at anyone outside their immediate 'tribe' as non-human other/enemy. And that pretty much means these people are looking at everyone else as if it's open season.

Having said that there are a lot of other people in this world who really are kind, generous and down deep good. Folks who will go out of their way to help a complete stranger. The issue is that they can be standing next to each other in the line at the supermarket. Thing is, you won't know which one is which until they start acting out.

I say all of this so you'll understand my next statement. I'll treat everyone with respect, courtesy and attempt to negotiate a win/win deal with them until they leave me no choice but to shoot them.

Over the years I've learned that it's better to find a way to compromise and negotiate with people so, if we can't always get what we want, we at least can get what we need. And in some extreme cases, you need to communicate to the other person that a win/win is that BOTH of you walk away from the situation alive.

There are some people whose approach is take what they want and if you suffer, well that's no sweat off their balls. While I might not like that philosophy, until they try to become physically dangerous though, that's not enough to warrant use of force.

Now here's kind of a weird paradox. A lot of these people ARE willing to use physical violence to achieve their ends ... as long as they aren't the ones at risk. I have a saying when people ask "Is he dangerous?". My answer is "Not to me, but to you, yes." I say that because someone who is willing to use violence to get what he wants -- against someone who can't defend him/herself -- will hesitate to try it against folks who will defend themselves.

As such, these kinds of folks tend to be very selective on who they attempt to use violence against. Since I am the kind of person who is willing force to defend myself, those folks tend to decide not to push it with me.

So the answer to your question is that I will try to negotiate and compromise with people -- because that actually is a better long term strategy in a lot of different reasons. However, if the person decides to use violence to get what he wants and to hell with me, then I will defend myself. But like I said, most people who use violence to get what they want tend to shy away from me these days.

But again, I've changed many things about myself and my lifestyle that used to put me into constant violence. I've learned how to deal with people in ways that do not give them an excuse to become violence -- even if they are looking for one (which some are). These days, I'd really prefer to solve problems without violence. Not only is it actually easier and more likely to result in a win/win, but it saves me all kinds of paperwork. It also saves me all kind nervous looks from my neighbors because they think I'm some kind of violent werewolf.

 

You, a werewolf? God Gracious, what gave them the idea?

You're a wereferret, obviously.

Hi.

 

Or as Bob Orlando said to my wife, "Why do you need a ferret for a pet? You married one."

 

Hi Marc,

Thank you for your superb and comprehensive replies. I have found what you said very useful, and will certainly think about the points that you've made.

Thanks again.

 

He has never seen you before your first cup of coffee.

 

Hi Marc,

If I may, I've posited a few common, but irritating, situations below. We can all find ourselves in these sorts of scene from time to time. I'd be interested to know how you would handle them.

Someone smoking on a train (or other public place where it's forbidden) near you.
Someone cutting in line in front of you.
Someone verbally insulting you, or a family member.
Someone intentionally shoulder bumping you.

Just a few examples off the top of my head.

I realise that these are all very low key situations, but in my experience "low key" doesn't equate with "not annoying." Also, low key stuff is far more usual than really serious situations. So I feel that handling low levels of annoying behaviour effectively is very important.

Thanks.

 

Generally speaking I just leave the area. Or I call someone who's job it is to handle such problems and let them deal with it.

Now, lest you think less of me. I want you to realize that I am coming from a place of personal responsibility. I am responsible for my words and actions. And where I'm from that means something very specific, namely if you aren't willing to kill or die over what you say, don't do it.

Is killing someone and spending the next few decades in prison over them smoking a cigarette where they aren't supposed to worth it? How about dying over it? Well, I've seen it happen.

As such in situations where I don't have an investment, it's easier to just relocate. While I will not hesitate to communicate if I have an investment, I definitely will look at the cost vs. profit ratio of an engagement of any potential conflict.

You might want to look at my piece on negotiation out at the sharp end
http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/negotiation.htm

Realistically, I have a lot extra resources that simply make it not worth my time to get upset with people who are habitually rude. It simply isn't worth my time.

If you're having these problems, you might want to look at this

 

First off realize that so-called 'self-defense' is an extreme of people skills. Or to misquote Clausewitz "Self-defense is establishing your boundaries by different means."

If a situation escalates to where you're debating to use physical force, then it's already floated over the normalcy horizon. I posted a link already to a 'negotiation' peace I wrote. The trick is to have viable responses that work with each level of a situation. Then it is mostly a matter of knowing when it is time to 'shift gears' to the new situation.

Now this might sound like I'm saying knowing when it's time to slug someone, but I'm not. I'm also talking about knowing when it's time to say 'excuse me' and go to the bathroom (and conveniently get side tracked on the 'way back' so she never gets back). When it's time to say "I said 'NO!' in a firm voice. When it's tune to call in back up. And when it's time pull out the pepper spray or 'accidentally on purpose' throw someone into a wall while making it look like an accident.

Start with this
http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/get_attacked.htm

 

TKDMitch, Clobbersaurus,

try to get your hands on a copy of The Little Black Book of Violence and answer, for yourself, the questions on Appendix A. [*] It's a book mostly geared towards young males, but at least that list is a public service.

Also, try to check some of Gavin deBecker's interview's online and "Betrayed by the Angel", a first-hand account of a rape.

Making short of the material referenced in the last sentence, and Mr. deBecker's book, a woman has the right to be rude to avoid danger. "I might hurt his feelings" is not a good reason to put yourself into a bad situation.

Keep safe.

[*] YMAA veers mostly towards Chinese MA, but it has some really nice books on self defense by Lawrence Kane, Kris Wilder and Rory Miller. Also, you might wish to check Marc's Violence, Blunders and Fractured Jaws for some introduction to the dynamics of violence --and, so, how to avoid it--.

 

Hi Marc,

Thank you for your latest replies. I certainly don't think less of you for your avoidance of trouble in minor situations. I suppose the question could seem like I was hoping for a more gung ho response, but I was expecting a cerebral response from you, and wasn't disappointed.

The raison d'etre behind the questions I have posted here, is really tp research ways and means of navigating the petty, but annoying, rudenesses that we all come across in daily life.

Ferran, thanks for your reccomendations. I read Violence, blunders way back in the mid 90's. Will check out the other books you mentioned.

 

Hi Marc,

Thank you for your latest replies. I certainly don't think less of you for your avoidance of trouble in minor situations. I suppose the question could seem like I was hoping for a more gung ho response, but I was expecting a cerebral response from you, and wasn't disappointed.

The raison d'etre behind the questions I have posted here, is really tp research ways and means of navigating the petty, but annoying, rudenesses that we all come across in daily life.

Ferran, thanks for your recomendations. I read Violence, blunders way back in the mid 90's. Will check out the other books you mentioned.

 

**Faux Peter Lorre voice** "Ahh, zee mummy....eet leeves!"

 

Hi Marc,

I have another couple questions I'd like to ask you, hope you have time to answer. They are basically points I'd like to discuss after reading through your website.

Firstly, the issue of size. I am more or less the same size as you, and so I feel we are both in the same boat so to speak when it comes to dealing with larger people. To what extent have you found size (both height and weight) to matter in confrontations? Not only in terms of the physical but in terms of how people percieve you according to size?

In my opinion, height isn't all that relevant. Certainly not as relevant as weight. But it has an impact on how seriously (if that's the right word) people might take you initially. I'd be interested in your experiences regarding this.

Secondly, I'd like to know more about your stance on physical fitness. It seems from your website that you don't regard it as a priority for self defence, "real" stuff. Apologies if I have read you wrong. Personally I think physical strength and fitness are important elements.

Thanks.

 

Clobbersaurus,

while Marc answers, if I may:

1.- Marc has been compared to a ferret. Among several many other things, he doesn't see big guys, he sees big trees, full of places to play.

2.- Fitness...

2.1- There's a big difference between being fit as in "I can run a 50 (or 200) yard sprint to safety" vs. "I can benchpress twice my weight". It wouldn't surprise me that Marc doesn't see much point, self-defense wise, to the second one, but I'm pretty sure he values the first kind.

2.2- Related to the previous one. When you have to run, you're doing something good (avoiding danger) but you've also made a mistake (being too near to it). Marc gives a lot of emphasis to avoiding danger to the point you do not have to run because you simply ain't there.

2.3- If things go brown, they ain't going to last long, likely. Some kinds of fitness are of limited value, there.

2.4- Diminishing returns and age. Awareness stays with you, technique stays with you. Fitness doesn't. Plus, it has a much lower ceiling. You can learn awareness for ages, or technique, and keep improving. Fitness reaches a point where the increasing benefits cost a lot.

Sorry for being kinda telegraphic. Bit busy & asleep.

Keep well.