well if you want to spot something perse there are 2 things noticable; When launched his right leg (the one who is launched), seems to work like a spring. And when falling backwards, he seems to hop twice on both legs, first left then right. But all in all, you can´t discuss about a clip like this, it still doesn´t mean it is not a true push, but then again, im the inexperienced here, so.. Who knows, my guess is; none do. But why don't you tell us your take on it, liokault. edit: Then again, the pushing fella does put his foot into such a position (between the legs of opponent) that he can uproot the other one.
I believe that is William CC Chen being peng'd out. Oh, and believe me, he is certainly not hopping by his own accord. He's is being bounced out, and if he doesn't hop he will fall over imo.
It's compliant, because the young guy is just taking in a demo so sifu can demonstrate his power, rather than trying earnestly to not get shoved. It's possible the old geezer pushed him really hard with relatively little apparent movement (I've experienced being shoved by somebody much lighter than me how managed to generate a surprising amount of force with relatively small movement using good body mechanics), but the hopping backwards for several yards looks like exageration by somebody wanting to make his sifu look good.
Neither it is energetic. This is Cheng Man Ching when he first went to the states. If you really wish to understand what is going on watch CMC and his intent in the few frames available before he goes out of shot. I can tell you he maintains that level of intent until the guy is stopped by the other students. If he had relaxed and taken his intent away immediately the other guy would have stopped in a couple of paces. It is sad really that it is just beyond your level of understanding. You cannot see the mind for the body. There is a small fault in technique, there was a little lack of confidence in his energetic power otherwise he wouldn't need the step forward.
It's good that the crowd were in just the right place to catch him and he was able to look behind to see where to go. Generally speaking, with this kind of push training it has to be compliant - so the 'pusher' is absorbing and returning energy and the 'pushee' is taking the returned energy straight to his feet and you would see 2 people working together. This is a 'set up' demo between sifu and student for the camera. When this push is a 'surprise' in a push hand drill it depends on the ability of the receiver to absorb the energy through the feet. In my training with Ma Lee Yang, she would 'play' (freestyle) push hands and then suddenly use fa jing throwing you against the wall in her flat, (assuming you had the 'wall' breakfalling skill). Jim uglow is also very good at this, using a tree sawn in half in the corner of his kwoon. I have also watched Ip Tai Tak, Chu Gin Soon, John Conroy and John Ding use these skills. I have a wall built specifically for this purpose in my kwoon. Any 'demo' would have to be 'set up' with a compliant student it would remain to be seen whether the practitioner could use the skill in a combat scenario.
Nice observation. There are two kinds of compliant. First there is the person who is trying not to get pushed. This person is certainly not trying to avoid being pushed, which is ok, its a demo. The second kind is the person who when pushed (I use the term loosely, perhaps nudged would be better) runs back of there own accord, regardless of the effect the 'push' had on him. This is not 'ok.'
Not so, look at the vector angle of the push nothing changes until he stops. The others move into position once they see that angle. If you want a better understanding of the mechanics then read John Fongs vectoring theories at www.imperialtaichi.com they explain it very well. Of the four you mention I have seen three of them do the same thing, one on film the other two in front of me. In fact with those two (John and Ip) I was the victim, and I do not co-operate
frankly it is this type of video and the silly discussion launched after it that makes TC have a hard time in being accepted as an effective MA on this forum.. having had a teacher with a TC background for a time.. i understand & do respect your art... I do not respect comments like "you are just not there yet in understanding the mind body connection" crap... many of us have been in the fighting arts for years on this site. many of us have met dillman's one touch knockout advocates and had to deal with those idiots... (god bless mythbuster's TV show and dillman being dumb enough to go on that show) When ever you talk about eventual mystical powers people with experience eyes' gloss over.. whether your art starts soft and then moves toward hardness or starts soft and becomes harder as you progress... eventually most end up with similar if not the same mechanics for power generation, balance and coordination... now... about this video.... it is obviously a guy (demo boy) with a high center of gravity with his weight on this back foot (hence why he could not shuffle back from the force of thr push.. lost his balance and then hopped backwards trying to recover... it is a great example of how not to stand & how to enter too deep... (and how to exagerate too) that push done by the "glowing" monk (do not care what his name was) was not much more than a weight transfer.. and the uki was too deep and thus overaffected..... it would help if Tai Chi video's did not look like they were shot 100 years ago hinting at some "forgotten" lore or some such silliness.... great art you have... bad marketing.... the mystic thing is played out the psuedo science thing with "vector angles" too.... lol
None at all, training is co-operative not co-operation. There is a difference. You have to be co-operative just to join in the process. I can assure you I wasn't letting myself be pushed, but you learn that the harder you fight it the more it hits you, and if you don't go with the flow, you can lock and can get injured. Which is why people wont try to demonstrate it on agravating little bunnies like your good self.
Look at the vectoring link I quoted and you will see why the pushee's energy is lifted. It is perfectly straight forward, no magic involved. It looks that age because it is that age. CMC came first to the states in 1965 I think. This was *filmed* 8mm Cine and has been digitised fairly recently. I remember in the 1980's seeing an 8mm copy on a nice chugging film projector. It contains lot of things including his form. CMC died 1975 I think.
No they just look different and he would have locked or gone over. And you might have had a cracked skull. John locked me once when I resisted the flow. One short flight (about 8 feet) followed by me landing locked and waiting for John to stop giggling and release me. You do not counter it by resisting you counter it by deflecting and rotating it. What a silly **** I am why should I try to help you, anyway there is no chance you will believe me so there it is, others here more open minded will perhaps be able to work with it.
you know.. because i went on the offense a bit vs. TC's approach I decided I'd go take a peek at that vectoring site... nothing there but a background with the name, and a yin/yang symbol all in grey.... in regards to tccstudent's post about my ignorance.. never claimed to be a TC guy.. have studied many arts.. teach a few.. one of them a southern chinese boxing style... that snobby attitude does not refute anthing I said.. it refutes me.... most will view your comment as an "insider's" dismissal of the unenlightened.. it turns people off (from you and your art for whom you are speaking) it is also the last argument made by zealots of dying ideologies worldwide I think you can do better.....
correct link for vectoring info: http://www.imperialtaichi.com/whatisit.htm in case any one else is curious
