Small Joint Manipulation

Discussion in 'Brazilian Jiu Jitsu' started by mattt, Dec 18, 2013.

  1. mattt

    mattt Valued Member

    Interesting thing came up today and I wanted to run it by you pros.

    Prior to class we worked an armbar attack where you grab all 4 fingers of the guy holding on for dear life and rip them off his own arm, with a nice amount of squeezing going on. It was something that was shown last week when away.

    Then in class rolling I was in a bow/arrow choke and saw an opportunity to hook my elbow (that little hookie bone on the inside that I like for heel hooks) onto the guys toes to pull them down.

    I created the same effect as a figure 4 toe hold but without the figure 4ing.

    I'm trying to figure out where the small joint manipulation comes into play here, any thoughts on these two scenarios - do they seem legit?
  2. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    As in, is it small joint and illegal? No. I'm pretty sure small joint manipulation legally is 3 fingers or less.

    As far as the techniques go the armbar one is quite standard and something I do if I get annoyed. Another fun trick that leaves out the joint manipulation is to rub the second knuckles of your hand against the back of theirs. They let go very quickly :p

    Never thought of the bow and arrow one before but I want to try it.
  3. mattt

    mattt Valued Member

    Yeah, I thought it might be OK with 4 fingers based on what you say here too, but it still feels kinda weird. Personally when I apply figure 4 toe holds I tend to go for the HH with it (twisting) but having some people just try the more straight back toes to butt approach I noticed it was a little painful on the toes which made me thought it could work with just one hand (elbow rather).

    I do have a good ability to defend the B/A chokes anyway so am happy to chill out and try new things, a big thing to help is clamping their choking arm down with your own to kill the pull, then you can play with stuff like this. They often gas out or give up after effectively pulling just your arm rather than your collar.

    Good luck with it, I hope it works out for you.
  4. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    I'm pretty certain that ripping a person's fingers off their own arm is not classed as 'legit' under most rule sets.

    Did you practise it more so that only one person in the class was left with fingers?

    Is this why you had to then look at toe holds?
  5. mattt

    mattt Valued Member

    No, we all are in the same boat. That is why I am applying toe holds with my elbowy bone now.
  6. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Jwt, hes ripping them off the arm he's gripping to defend the armbar
  7. B3astfrmthe3ast

    B3astfrmthe3ast Warning:Extreme power!!

    well that would depend on where you are if your in your school whatever your instructor says is what you should follow, in the streets no such thing do what you must, and in comps certain organizations have different definitions, NAGA you are allowed to do wristlocks they dont consider that small joint manipulation, US Grappling all small joint Manipulation is not allowed, and as far as i know Grapplers Quest is the same as NAGA

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