Curious to know if anyone practices or sees a difference in single form practice verses long form practice? As far as I understand, here in the U.S. its common in most tai chi schools to teach the long form, each single form successively as a dance, transitioning from one form to the other, 108 etc. However there is also the notion to practice each form in solo repetitiously, one after the other; single form. Obviously everyone works with a form from time to time, but that is not how they might have been taught; if they were taught the long form to begin with. It is not common to practice single form, but some schools do teach it. Any opinions on these variances?
I think this has been discussed in depth before, but personally I use single forms to train and long forms to practice.
By "single form", do you mean "single move"? In other words, do you mean the movements that are chained together to make up a form?
Yes, imo. Some schools call 'forms = frames' and the 'individual movements = forms.' I prefer the word frame as opposed to form. My take on this...It is best to teach some of the form, first half of part one or all of the same. Then to break it down and look at each movement individually. To explore the body mechanics, posture testing and martial applications.
Yes, This is what I consider to be training. You break down the long form into individual postures and simply ask Why? Seek to look to the depths of each individual posture. Practice, for me, is basically doing the long form, you are working on your body and practicing, but not analyzing the ENTIRE form in depth. To me at least then you put together what you have gotten from the single postures and add them to the long form.
I train in the UK, and we learn roughly a move per session, and keep going over the form we've learned to date, refining it as we go. As I understand it, teachers would traditionally teach one move and make the student keep repeating it until he/she got it 100% right, at least in some styles. Obviously, if the student is practising all day long, as opposed to in a weekly class, he/she will get the move 100% right in a far shorter time frame. Thus, I can see why we do it this way - casual students would just lose patience if they did the same thing for months on end until they'd got the Preparing Move of Tai Chi perfect. But... Personally, I suspect I'd rather enjoy learning in this way. Learning each move thoroughly before moving on would help me understand the principles better, and later on, moves would get faster and faster to learn anyway, as I'd have a deeper understanding. I'd have absolute confidence that I was Doing It Right from the outset. But it's obvious why teachers who rely on business from a mixture of students - some who are into the martial stuff, others who just want to chill out - take the "teach it roughly and refine it later" approach. It's just more interesting for the casual student.
I think this is a good clarification to make. When I say single form, I'm speaking about 1 form independent of doing the forms sequentially one after the other. In this sense, the short form or the long form, would be considered a sequence of forms; and hence not single practice. For example in single form practice, you might do upward and downward (a particular form) repetitiously, 15-20 times, focusing on the fluidity of the particular form, before you transition into another particular form which you also approach in the same manner. This type of practice in my opinion is good at creating a very fluid tai chi. The short form or the long form (or any sequence of individual forms, sucessively, one form after another) on the other hand is also good at creating fluidity, but it can be further maximized, if the single form practice is present. To further differentiate, in a single form practice, you would pick one of the follwing and do it repititiously and as smooth as possible before transitioning to another form: upward/downward, inward/outward, raise hands, holding the tai chi ball, slant flying, cloud handz, ward, single whip etc. Also, this is not in terms of martial application just yet. It can be considered just learning the forms. I think single form practice really builds fluidity. And not to take away from the martial aspect, because if the strike is fluid it will be good.
Cheers for the explanation, I think I would have called it "single posture vs form" but its all the same really. Maybe you'll find this interesting - Traditional Yang Style Training Sequence: http://www.itcca.it/peterlim/training.htm
In my system we practise the loosening exercises created by Master Huang Xiangxian as well as three forms (37 move, 108 move and a fast form) and push hands. The loosening exercises are 5 simple movements each repeated again and again, each reflecting a particular aspect of Taiji movement. Their advantage over form training is that the part of the mind responsible for remembering a sequence of movements can be less involved and I can concentrate on the quality of movement more deeply. This, more refined quality of movement can then be taken into the forms and push hands. I usually find that my "leading edge" in taiji is found in these exercises which I think are the kind of thing you mean by the phrase "short forms". We do also train very short sequences from the forms repetitiously to gain better understanding but this is probably common to most systems.
Hey I remember seeing a film somewhere of Huang doing these exercise. any idea of where it can be found unfetteredmind ? I'd be interested to take another look
Ya, this is a good compendium as to what I'm referring to when I say single "form" or posture practice. It's interesting, because I think that the walking training, (what may be referred to as the short or long form), has become synonymous with the meaning of tai chi, but as discussed in the link there are also some more basic buildings blocks that can make that walking training even more attuned, I guess you could say.
Quickie contribution. I've talked before about this stuff as single form repetition is a significant part of what we do and I think it is more useful than specific linked form sequences. (Here a "form" is something like "lift hands" and a linked form would be single whip going into lift hands going into... etc.) Lift hands (for example) can be repeated over and over on the spot or in conjunction with different stepping directions. Each has its own use. Do it backwards and it becomes retreating monkey / step back roll arms, so some of the single forms re-appear in the linked forms anyway. Holding a ball done sideways becomes cloud hands etc. We don't just practice the movements solo though, even from the outset. We show how the movement can be used in combat (usually a number of different ways) to impart a fairly generic conceptual understanding of the movement. We teach the principles of the movement and people can tweak it solo and in relation to other people feeding various attacks. The reason we think this is so important is that although certain movement principles remain constant, in actual application, movement qualities, timing and positioning have to be subtly altered to suit a specific application (throw, strike, break, sweep, lock etc.) at a specific moment with a specific person. There isn't one perfect way to do a movement that will suit all situations. I think this is why Hong Junsheng advocated always having a specific application in mind when practicing a form movement, so that you can work on mentally fine-tuning the movements in quite precise ways. This process ensures that your intention is precise during the movement's execution.
It's interesting how one trains and what they understand about tai chi. I think everyone would agree that tai chi differs from all other martial arts in that it is a soft style; accept your opponents force and redirect back to them or how have you. This is why it is paramount your application of tai chi be fluid, period. If someone comes flying at you with a punch with all their might, the only way you will be able to grab it/block it, avert it or absorb it to redirect it, is if your movement is fluid. This is why you must practice the forms themselves, posture practice or even walking practice before you think anything about the application of the form. Because when you learn a form in application, you've already lost the chance to become fluid because you mind is entangled in application, i.e. you're already tense so how can you be fluid. In tai chi, it's common understanding to relax yourself and let go of the tension. If one learns a form as application, your ability to relax in using the form is illusionary; you'll never build any relaxation. This is common in the west to think of application first. This is superficial tai chi and is no different then wu shu, karate or tae kwon do. You'll find that any tai chi instructor with any reputation will advocate fluidity in your posture practice or walking practice before they have you apply it. And then you will actually be able to apply it. It's funny, only people who have no reputation and no following advocate different. It's like if you want to learn tai chi as itself, then learn it as it is documented by reputable tai chi masters (not people who practice tai chi supplementary to their other martial arts), who will all state that the form should be fluid. It makes easy sense for anyone who isn't bais. Tai chi, soft style, accept and redirect force, therefore form should be fluid. How can the form ever be fluid if it is taught as being applied; unintelligent.
Watch master Huang's movement from 1:06 to 1:09, the way his body lifts up, looks funny; I betcha he could pop n lock or liquidate very good.
Yeah, he looks fluid enough, pity about all the fake fa jing/ over respectful students running backwards stuff though.
Lift and sink. The vertical circle. Funny how so many practitioners think the circularity in Taiji is horizontal. Why do they not consider that circularity might also include a vertical circle?
