Salaams' I've seen this system "Silat Kuntau Tekpi" mentioned on several threads - and its the first time I've seen the words "Kuntau" and "Silat" used in the title of a single art. Does this mean that its Malay with Chinese influence? Also is there a difference between "Kuntau" and "Kuntao" (besides spelling)? I know that the issue of Chinese influence on Malay systems can be a touchy subject among some practitioners, so I hope I'm not offending anyone with my question. Cheers, Kareema
Cut and Paste round 2 Peace to all, Dear Kareema, Here are the previous thoughts and experience that i posted in this forum a while back. Please remember that i'm not 'the voice' of Silat Kuntau Tekpi Malaysia, only a mere pesilat of this particular style/school. You can also go to these websites and contact Omar Hakim, the US representative of Silat Kuntau Tekpi if you want to experience this silat yourself. http://www.tekpi.org/pages/1/index.htm or http://www.zurimedia.com/tekpi_at_krav.htm From the topic 'Here some thoughts': Silat Kuntau Tekpi -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peace to all, Dear Krys, I'm only a beginner in Silat Kuntau Tekpi but i'll try to answer your questions to the extent of my knowledge. Silat Kuntau Tekpi originates from the state of Kedah (north peninsula Malaysia). It was practiced by the royalties and 'panglima-panglima istana' or palace master warriors since the 1700s. This silat can trace its history to the time of Panglima Taib bin Wan Hussin. He passed down the system to his daughter Siti Aminah binti Taib, who later passed down to her son Pak Guru Zainol Abidin. Pak Guru passed away last year and now presently his son Pak Guru Sani is the new Guru Utama and Pewaris of Silat Kuntau Tekpi. Silat Kuntau Tekpi was originally known only as Silat Tekpi. FYI, Tekpi is the Sai weapon you can find amongst Karate practioners. It is the main weapon of Silat Kuntau Tekpi other than Keris. The name 'Kuntau' was added to the original name by Pak Guru Sani to differentiate this style of silat with other styles that coincidentally had the same name. This was important due to the fact that the law in Malaysia states that silat schools/styles must be registered to be legal. In other words, 'Silat Kuntau Tekpi' is just the registered name, whereas 'Silat Tekpi' is the true name. However, according to Pak Guru Sani, the name 'Kuntau' has significance because in Malaysia, 'Kuntau' can also mean (in Silat context) 'hard & fast' which is typical in Silat Tekpi. About kuntau in Malaysia in general, i don't have any authority in the matter. You have to ask those who really knows, i.e Kuntau practioners in Malaysia themselves. Tha's all for now. Hope this answered your question. Peace From the topic 'Silat Animals': Kuntau in Silat Kuntau Tekpi -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peace to all, I agree that the term 'kuntau' is widely used in Malaysia to indicate that the art has chinese influences. There are also silat 'perguruan' that uses the term 'kuntau' to denote hardness and 'straight-to-the-point' method used by them. The silat that i train in, Silat 'Kuntau' Tekpi, is one of them. According to the elders in the district of Baling, in the state of Kedah, the original name (or more precisely the name given by outsiders to the art, because in the old days there were no specific names given to silat styles) was 'Silat Menela'. This silat was given a proper name during the time of the late Pak Guru Zainol Abidin Endut (the second generation inheritor of the art) as 'Silat Tekpi'. Then, with the new law that requires all silat perguruan to register as an organization by the Malaysian government, the son of Pak Guru Zainol, Cikgu Sani, who inherited this art even before Pak Guru Zainol died due to illness, had to find a suitable organizational name due to the fact that there are various other silat perguruan in Malaysia at the time that also used the name 'Silat Tekpi' but didn't have any similarities nor lineage to his style. After thinking it through, Cikgu Sani opted to add 'kuntau' to the name because; 1) he didn't want to loose the name 'tekpi' 2) for the people of Kedah, 'kuntau' in the MA context denotes both hard and fast, which in Cikgu Sani's wisdom, is a suitable term to depict his silat. Thus the organization 'Pertubuhan Seni Silat Kuntau Tekpi Malaysia' was born (sorry, don't remember the date). Ironically, our logo to this day does not have the term 'kuntau' in it and among the practioners of the style, we prefer to just call our style Silat Tekpi. Diligentmantis,if i'm not mistaken, i read in another topic that you said you are going to visit Malaysia soon. Are you still coming? peace
Thank You Amirul! I am looking into both of the resources which you kindly provided - although I understand the official Tepki.org site is under construction. On a somewhat related note, is there any specific "lore" for lack of a better term regarding the tekpi (the actual weapon) in Malaysian Silat? ie. when did it come to Malaysia? Who brought it? etc. Thank you again for taking my questions.
Amirul Aloha ! Hope you are doing well and hopefully I get to meet you in Oct when I next visit there and maybe this time we get to see some silat. How were the Suwanda cd's ? Bernard
Just out of curiosity and forgive my ignorance, but is a tekpi 'exactly' the same as a sai, or is it more akin to the siku-siku/cabang?
I'll try my best... Peace to all, Dear Kareema, In my little experience of learning silat, i've heard a couple of so-called tekpi related origins (why 'so-called'? because there're no proof to any of them). Some people say that the weapon came from Egypt, some say from India, others say from China, a few say from Japan/Okinawa while the rest say from the Malay Archipelago itself. So in fairness, let us forget about these 'origins' and learn how to use tekpi! Dear Bernie, It's been a while my friend. How was the training camp in Bandung? The cd's are ok. October? Why not come in November? Hari Raya (Eid Celebration) will be around the first week of November. At that time you can experience how Malay and other Muslims in Malaysia celebrate. And all that good food...yummy! Of course you can experience some Malaysian silat, but time my friend. If you have the time, i'll introduce you to some good pesilat and their respective styles. Dear Monyet Nakal, I'm not an expert in the differences between the said weapons, but i'll relate to you what my teacher told me. The Malay Tekpi has either 4 to 5 components or parts. First is the bottom of the handle (the **** thing). It can either be called 'Bunga Lawang' or 'Mata Lalat' depending on the shape. Second component is the handle itself which is called 'Hulu'. Third component is the two protruding metals left and right which are called 'Sampir'. The next component is the part where it can either be 4 or 5 because regardless whether it exist or not, the weapon is still a Tekpi. This part is the oval shaped thing in the between the 'Sampir', 'Hulu' and the last component, the 'Mata' (i think you can guest this one ). That oval shaped in-betweener is called 'Telur Burung'. You might be wondering why i didn't translate those names from Malay to English? Because i want you guys to open the dictionary and learn Bahasa Melayu/Indonesia! Anyway, those are the components/parts of a Malay Tekpi...and that's all i have to say cause that's all i know (wow...i'm such in a good mood today!) Sorry! Maybe Pak Kiai Carita can explain the Indonesian Cabang or Trisula while friends from Kobudo can explain their take on the Sai. Ok...i have to stop now before it's too late. Peace
I know the trisula is used in several traditional silats but I do not know the history. The legend of the trisula I know is from the wayang kulit shadow puppets. The trisula is normally a spear, not a short handled weapon. Syiwa owns one that was forged by the Mpu of Heaven, Mpu Ramadi, in the beginning of time... I believe the trident is also prominent it the Western pantheon. In Jawa most trisula are spears and not used for fighting but kept as spiritual heirlooms believed to bestow the owner with blessings from (Syiwa, Wisnu, Brahma, or Buddha or any other God but now usually only from) Allah SWT.
salaams, There is a lot to be written about the mystical law of the number 3 from all traditions. It could be that the symbolical value of the three prongs of the trisula would represent Brahma - Vishnu -Shiva in the roles of creator , sustainer - detroyer - active - passive - neutral , This would be represented Islamically in the asma al Husna ( Divine names of Allah Almighty ) al Khaliq, al Bari & al Qahar . Perhaps also it denotes the stages on the mystical path - the search , the finding , the return or in traditional Sufism fana fi murshid , fana fi rasul , Fana fi Allah - dissapearance in the master , the Prophet ( peace and blessings be upon him and his family for ever ) and in Allah. The most well known owner of a trident in the western Greco - Roman tradition was Neptune / Poseidon - the God of the sea and maybe this relates to the 3 levels of the earth - the sea , the surface and the heavens - also it signifies the limits of our immediate physical dimensions - length , width , depth. The 3 prongs would then be linked by the handle which could represent the unifying force of all the aspects , so as a spiritual item it would be important indeed for the trisula to have a spear like handle , the 3 elements are servants of the one , all issuing from the same ultimate source Peace
Amirul Aloha ! Training was excellent there as we met a few old Pendekars as well. Next summer we will include Bali as a stop too checking out Balinese silat along with our usual Sundanese material . Unfortunately, Oct is the only time I wil be there, same hotel, see you, please email me your cell number if possible as I need to contact Guru Sulaiman Shariff if possible. Mahalo
back to earth.. Peace to all, Dear Kiai Carita and Sulaiman, Thanks for the input on legends and symbolisms my friends! As far as i've learned Silat Kuntau Tekpi, i've never heard of any symbolic nor legendary significance to the Tekpi from any of my teachers nor from Pak Guru himself (maybe i need to ask more ). All i know is that we view this weapon as (in Bahasa Melayu) 'senjata resmi'. Note the use of 'resmi' and not 'rasmi'. Dear Sulaiman, Cikgu/Che'gu Sulaiman from Gayong Spain i presume? If it is you, then good job on that website. Any updates in the near future? Coming to Malaysia anytime soon? Dear Bernie, If the person above is 'the' Sulaiman from Gayong Spain, perhaps you can give him a call sometime cause he's from the same school/style as Cikgu Sulaiman Shariff. Anyway, if you want to meet Cikgu Sulaiman Shariff personally, you have to go to his home in Penang, north of Malaysia. However, if you want to just give him a call, i'll pass the number to you once you get here. I'll private message you my cellphone number soon. Peace
Amirul Aloha ! I know Sulaiman from Spain as he is affiliated with Pak Ariffin whom I visited and trained under in Malaysia about 3 years ago for a very brief time period. I need to talk with Pak Shariff as he was a friend of my late teacher when they met in Chicago years ago and update him on a few issues. I should be in KL in Oct and will be in penang too. email me privately when you can and hope to see you soon.
Salaams all - Amirul thanks for comments on the website - hope to update it soon with some video etc - have been talking about coming back to KL for some time now - hopefully can soon make it with some of the new Spanish Anak Gayong - would love to come & visit you so will let you know. Bernie - nice to make contact again - please give my warm salaams to the real Chegu sulaiman in Penang - hopè to see you one day soon as well peace
The term 'kuntau' Salam semua I would like to explain the term Kuntau in the silat I am studying, i.e. Silat Sendeng (Muar). By the way, I am only relearning this silat recently to get beyond the "boy scout" curriculum I learned during my boarding school years, so please do not take my explanation here as the official explanation in our system. Besides, I might be wrong.. In our syllabus there are three major components, namely Kuntau, Sendeng and 'buang pukul' The juruses in kuntau are linear, with the chest facing squarely (dada pepat) to the opponent. There are six juruses in the kuntau. There are also forms in kuntau, incorporating some bunga (kembangan) movement, and named by pecah (break). There are kuntau pecah 4, kuntau pecah 6, kuntau pecah 8, 12, 16? 18? and some more, err I am not totally sure, and i dont want to get into trouble with my current teachers. (Hah, you forgot what I told you!!) The juruses in Sendeng can either be linear or zigzag at 45 degree, with the chest always facing to the sides (the way TKD stand when sparring, perhaps a better picture, though may not the exact picture, the way Bruce lee stand facing his opponent sideways when he begin the fight with the first opponent in the tournament in 'enter the dragon' (the tall guy with the scar on his face?)). (sendeng means slanted, or at an angle but not right angle) And there are six juruses in sendeng. But there is no form in sendeng. And my seniors told me that sendeng is not taught in the general school curriculum. (right too, I never learned them during my school years, only now I am learning them from my seniors). Buang pukul, is a set of techniques to counter attacks, if I am not mistaken. Anyway, that is the definition of 'kuntau' in my silat. I have asked my senior sendeng practitioners if it derives from 'kun tao', they have no idea. So I have no real idea too, but by posting informations from various pesilats on this forum, hopefully there will be a enough information that will culminate in the definitive understanding of the term 'kuntau' in silat. I also remember my grandpa told me that he had also learned a silat named kuntau, and proceeded to show it to me the one of the forms briefly. But I was very young then (8-9?) so I could not remember correctly, but if I am not mistaken, it has some resemblance with the forms named kuntau pecah empat in sendeng. One thing though, I believe, kuntau is a very different concept from other silat melayu, by which I mean gayong, harimau, lincah. Perhaps another interesting dicussion is what is 'silat melayu'. And how does this differ from 'silat jawa' or 'silat bugis'. Or, perhaps this has been discussed anywhere in the forum? Or perhaps it is better to start a new thread on this, so as not to mix issues discussed in this thread. That's it for now, hope somebody can take it from here. Wassalam Pakehraja
Greetings everyone, I’m very glad I started this thread. Terimah kasih to all who graciously posted. Pakerajah, since you mentioned Silat Sendeng - I had heard from my teacher that this particular system was in fact of Buginese origin, and that the reason for the sideways stance had to do with the way a shield would be positioned/carried by the practitioner on the battlefield - or enemy vessel. Is this so? Or are you saying that your particular system has an aspect called Sendeng (which is different from the style of the same name)? I have practiced Silat Jawa for a few years, and now I am looking forward to investigating some of te Arts from Malaysia...so I would welcome a discussion on some of the differences/similarities! Salaam Kareema
Thaank you Peace to all, Dear Bernie and Sulaiman, Cikgu Sulaiman Shariff is truly an excellent pesilat and a wonderful person. I pray that both of you have the opportunity to meet him in the future, InshaAllah. Dear Pakehraja, Thank you soo much for responding to the issue on kuntau in Malaysia! I was really hoping that another Malaysian (and from another perguruan) like yourself to share your experience and knowledge on the matter. Dear Kareema, Does the Silat Jawa that you learned has a name? In Malaysia, some silat Jawa has names, for example Pencak Silat Rincong Rentak 9 or previously known as Moropulai Sogo, or another one is Silat Seranteh (previously just Silat Jawa, seranteh from the village Ngeranteh in Jawa). Others just named their styles Silat Jawa. Peace
Asalaam Aleikum Amirul, My husband and I have studied Cimande, but we're not experts. I love it, but gosh it can be hard on the arms :cry: I have seen demos of Cekak, Kalimah, and Gayong specifically, and I have seen videos of a television series (I think) showing different Silat practitioners in your country practicing various Malaysian and Indonesian systems over there. I'm a newbie when it comes to martial arts, but even I can see certain key movements that occur throughout these different systems which leads me to believe they have a common bond other than they're all called "silat." You would certainly know better than me Peace, Kareema
Very interesting A'laikum salaam and peace to all, Dear Kareema, Where are you and your husband located again? Are you guys Indonesian? Why i ask? Because it is interesting to know that you have seen performance/demos by Silat Cekak, Silat Kalimah and Silat Gayong respectively. There are three different martial arts series that have been produced in Malaysia, namely Mahaguru, Wajadiri and Gelanggang. It might have been one of these videos that you watched. But again, where did you get them? Me knowing better?! Not at all! I have only scratched the surface of Silat Kuntau Tekpi specifically and Silat generally. From the videos of Mande Muda, i probably understand why you say Cimande is hard on your arms! Give my regards to your husband. Peace PS-my wife once learned a Javanese Silat Lintau style.
Salaam Amirul, My husband and I are living in Michigan. I am from Trinidad, and he is African-American. I saw those videos courtesy of a Malaysian brother who used to come to our masjid, but that was quite some time ago. I only saw them that one time, but the impression "stuck" Terimah Kasih, Kareema
Salam I have no idea on the shield thing. It could be. But I remember in one of my 'kedai kopi' chats, my senior mentioned the origin of Sendeng from pirates on vessels, something like that. The Sendeng system I am studying now, is registered as Seni Silat Sendeng Malaysia. It has some kuntau element in it. That's the way I see it. Wallahu'alam. ON top of these there are 'permainan senjata', weapons play, including tekpi. Other weapons are Keris, Parang, Pedang, Tembung, Tumbuk Lada, Kerambit and..10 weapons altogether. Our tari (kembangan) is called Lela sembah. Here's a website depicting this Sendeng, but it seems it has not been updated for sometime now. Its in Malay. You can see the pictures though. http://sendeng.tripod.com/ I would be very interested to see if any other sendeng practitioner in this forum can write on their take on Sendeng. (There are a few versions of Silat sendeng in Malaysia) Wassalam Pakehraja
Salam. Kareema, I was thinking of the Buginess origin you mentioned. It could be possible, because in ancient time, lots of pirates were from Tanah Bugis. (ref previous posting). Anyway your teacher seems to know quite a bit on the history. What is his/her background? Here's another website on Sendeng, with photo of the founder on it. http://psssmkl.tripod.com/sejarah.htm wassalam Pakehraja.
