Hi I have been with Genbukan for a while now and thought it could be inappropriate to ask my Sensei this question. From my reading I found that Bujinkan is made up of 9 schools (Ryu). These are: Togakure Ryu Ninjutsu - founded in the late 1100's AD by Daisuke Nishina Gyokko Ryu Koshijutsu - mid 1100's by Tozawa Hakuunsai Koto Ryu Koppojutsu - mid 1500's by Sakagami Taro Kunishige Kukishinden Ryu Happo Hikenjutsu -mid 1300's by Izumo Kanja Yoshitero Tagaki Yoshin Ryu Jutaijutsu - early 1600's by Takagi Oriuemon Shigenobu Shinden Fudo Ryu - mid 1300's by Izumo Kanja Yoshiteru Gikan Ryu Koppojutsu - mid 1500 by Uryu Hangan Gikanbo Kumogakure Ryu Ninpo - mid 1500's by Iga Heinaizaemon no Jo Ienaga Gyokushin Ryu Ninpo - mid 1500's by Sasaki Goemon Teruyoshi What schools is Genbukan made up of?
I find it odd that you find it inappropriate to ask what martial arts you are studying. It is on the website
Thank you stephenk does this mean Genbukan teaches more techniques than Bujinkan? Since Genbukan has a lot more schools that made up Genbukan. Excuse my ignorance if that is incorrect.
In Genbukan we practice over and over how to bow correctly, and all the traditional movements and procedures to show respect etc. Is it like that at Bujinkan too?
Yes! No! Maybe! Erm. It entirely depends upon which school you go to. For me personally, I think the Genbukan is too formal but I don't think the Bujinkan is formal enough. That's a very general statement I know but you see what I mean I expect.
I personally think the Bujinkan has just the right amount of formality. I don't know anything about the Genbukan. I find it easier to figure out who's good/bad/ugly if people's behavior is tolerated. If everyone acts the same it can be hard to see behind the mask. I like to allow people to tip their hands if they choose.
Stephenk said:- By comparison to what? Do you mean "the right amount of formality in relation to what you personally are looking for"? Do you mean "the right amount of formality in relation to other arts you've studied"? Or do you mean something else?
I don't think a comparison has to be made for the statement to make sense. I also noted (one of the reasons) why, in my opinion, I feel that this level of formaility is beneficial to my training.
Well yes, of course. I did read what you wrote and I agree with it, especially the bit about:- I was just trying to gain a little more understanding of your perspective. Take Kyudo for example. To some people it is amazingly formal and indeed it is. But the formality is not just pointless ritual. It is an inherent component of the context of the art. Such levels of formality would be very odd if applied to the context of a fighting art. And that formality serves as a way of training the practitioner in important ways. They learn to co-ordinate their actions and behaviour with those around them for example. Now if we take formality too far, it can become restrictive. But if we don't take formality far enough, then we can tend to become lazy and unaware of our surroundings. That's why I was saying that, for me, as a very generalistic rule, the Genbukan is a little too formal but the Bujinkan could stand to be a little more formal. So that's why I was trying to understand your perspective a little better.
Ahh, that makes a lot more sense. Thanks for the clarification. I think this is spot on. I think it's a trade off. In the Bujinkan, I think, you're expected to learn that awareness yourself. This in the end (I think) can lead to a much deeper lesson. The cost will be that some will not ever 'get it', the benefit is that a few will be able to 'get it' at a much deeper level than they would otherwise. Different people, organizations, martial arts, marriages, countries, etc... will choose to move the slide on the scale to different places. I think it's just like the stock market: you can put it all in bonds and be safe but probably never rich, or you can let it all ride on some crazy small-cap stock. If everyone takes the bond portfolio everyone will be okay. If everyone takes the 'pick one crazy stock' protfolio most people will blowout, but a few will pick winners and be richer than they ever could have been before. We see this debate in government all the time. I feel like the Bujinkan has cranked the personal responsibility **** all the way to 11 then shot the **** off for good measure. I'm okay with this, but then you should see my portfolio. :cry:
Stephenk said:- Someone should sig that. It's spot on. I think that we ourselves are supposed to find out what we need and then sort it out for ourselves, with the guidance of our instructors. We've all been on seminars, right? Well next time you go to one and the instructor is demonstrating, ignore him for a minute or two and cast your eyes around at the audience. How many people are sitting sprawled like puppets with their strings cut? How many people are leaning on their bokken like Conan the Barbarian? How many people are standing up at the front, totally oblivious to the fact that people behind them can't see? Three perfect examples of poor formality. But no one comes down on them. They can behave like that if they want. But their seniors really do take notice of these behavioural patterns and they remember. And then maybe they're not quite as forthcoming as they might have been when instructing that student.
Stingking posted Yes but this does not mean its better. Ask yourself this question. Who is the more skilled practioner? Someone who studies one subject all his life and gains a GCSE. GCE, A Level, Degree, Masters, Doctorate and professorship in that one subject. Or Someone who studies umpteen subjects but fails to master anyone of them? Now this is not an attack on the Genbukan because I believe that after a certian point I the students are asked what school they want to learn in depth. But quite clearly one cannot learn all the arts that the Bujinkan and Genbukan have to offer. In the past martial arts masters probably only mastered one school. i.e they would be a Takagi Yoshin Ryu man, or a Gyokko Ryu man. In the Bujinkan there are nine schools, but even with the 6 that have been taught it is still an extreme amount of material to master. A bit like doing 6 doctorates. So having more techniques does not mean its a better system, it just offers more choice maybe. Gary Arthur
Kinda like someone who gets to a certain point, thinks they have enough knowledge despite not mastering prior systems and creates their own system maybe? Is that what you meant? Don't take that as a judgement but merely a statement of possible facts, there is only the one true one that judges. Amen, Brother. :Angel:
Xen posted But even the Sokes are still students, surely their learning has not stopped. Tanemura even up to only a few years ago was still searching out grandmasters to learn from, and Hatsumi Sensei only recently stated that he now considers himself Soke. Even now people on here state that Hatsumis art is forever changing. Do you think this is because he is still improving, still learning. To who are you alluding to here? Gary Arthur
