reality of facing a gun(Graphic Clip)

I saw a post a while back with a video about the true danger when faced with a knife. I thought that to be an essential video for all martial artist to view. I came across this clip, and think it's also nessesary. It just goes to show that no matter who you are, or how many there are of you, whenever dealing with a gun, it's still a lethal situation. I posted a warning in the title, due to one of the victims being shot and killed shown on tape.

http://www.theync.com/m061006shoot.shtml

 

Yeah that's pretty brutal.
If ever there was a time for some serious eye gouging that'd have been it.
One of the main problems I see is that everyone wants to be a headhunter.
Granted - being out of the situation is so much different - but with all that and not a single person knees him in the nuts or sticks a thumb in his eye?!

Sad stuff that. Gunshot to the head and it's game over. As shown in the tape.

 

reply...

I agree. The guy who re-directed the gun during the start of the conflict, could have ended it right there if he knew how. An eye gouge, or groin shot or more dehiblitating shot would have helped. Its a shame that 4 guys tried to out-muscle and wrestle the gun away.

 

if i was ever threatened by a gun i think id just do what ever they said, i mean, in karate we dont learn how to disarm people with guns, so i wouldnt really know where to begin

 

Look how long it took before the first shot was fired. Look how long the strugle lasted and when they finaly get the gun away he runs off not even looking hurt. I don't suggest fighting an armed opponant unless you have to but this is a perfect example of why you should know what it is your trying to do in these situations rather than fumble around trying to figure it out or get lucky during the attack.

 

Good clip. Too many people think that the right technique can make a situation safe, but this clearly shows the risks. When guns are involved it's too easy for a fatal injury to occur, more so when you don't know anything about the person. If those guys had not played hero chances are they would all be alive, even if they were a few quid shorter. A pretty small price to pay for your life.

 

Cue several dozen mappers (who've never seen combat, had a gun pointed at them, or even been in a fight outside the dojo) explaining which moves and sequences of moves they would have used in efficiently disarming and neutralizing the man in this video.

 

Out of curiosity does anyone know what city this happened in?

As for the disarm, if you don't know any would it be a better option to do some sort of armbar where the gun is pointed away from everyone? Figure if you have your weight on his arm he can't move the gun around and then everyone can do some footstomping or something to finish the situation.

I haven't gotten to the gun disarms part of my training yet so after seeing this clip I was thinking what I would have done if I was in that situation (THANKFULLY I was not). Just wondering what your thoughts are.

 

That shows the danger quite well... however I think its pretty obvious that none of those guys were especially trained ... at least not in a way they could effectively control it. The first guy who grabs the gun did well... he seemed to have some notion of how to control it however... the other 3 piling in was really quite silly.

Has a good message for anyone with too much confidence for their own good though

 

Wow.
You make a lot of assumptions.

Judging by your background I'd say you've really only given an accurate description of yourself sunshine.

http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?p=837286#post837286

 

I presume you have then?

Some of these several dozen mappers you refer to are in the military... we have a Marine Close combat instructor, someone who trains military personal and bodyguards.. numerous others who have completed tours of duty in the armed forces.

I'm not as such military and probably would have fouled myself in that situation... however if Id had ANY opportunity I would have broken any and every limb, joint etc. of the gun weilder. If id had the opportunity i would probably have tried ot use his own gun of him... providing I didn't do a Leeroy

 

Do you know us "several dozen mappers"....Didn't think so think before you speak. Most prey never to go into those situations. Many of us have been in them. In my life i've had both a knife and a gun pointed at me. I disarmed the knife, and didn't try for the gun. I didn't feel my life to be in immediate danger when the gun was being held on me, otherwise I would have "attempted" to disarm it. Growing up, My grandparents owned a store on one of the most dangeorus streets in the nation. I can't tell you how many horrible things that I saw when I went down there to help them on weekends with it. The world is a dangerous place, bottom line. You dont have to be in the military to live danger.(Although I hold the highest respect for members of the armed forces). Somebody else posted that this clip was all "fumbling" around for a long period of time. Knowing what shots to use instead of wrestling around with the assailant would definetly have helped....And Count, I assume you were talking about Bruce Leroy?

 

Perfect summation Slip! Bump^^! The whole "head hunting" thing is not limited to street things, actually, more street kids, thugs, etc. know how to react in multi attacker brawl. In jails and prisons, I have seen correctional officers Head Hunt. This just increases the chance for injury. Cops do it too! The only way that situation would have been rememdied was to control the weapon! Grab it! Hold it! Squeeze it! Do not let go unless you have mashed the gun into an ingot! I'd rather be bleeding and have a burnt hand then be dead.

 

Good Clip.

 

It's pretty shocking and it saddens me to see such a thing, however, a couple of things popped into my head whilst watching...

The four guys seemed to just go for the attack without considering co-operating with the attacker...Do you think giving the assailant what he was after (presumably hard cash for drugs or something) would have resulted in a very different outcome? I'm not sure, but most crackheads are after a quick fix and 50 quid will get them off your case. Maybe because there were four of them (a couple looked fairly large) they thought they could easily take the guy out?

At least being ready to give up some cash first would have possibly ended the confrontation, if it didn't at least that route had been tried first....It's easy to cancel a credit card and lose some cash at the expense of pride and a scare...it's not so easy to cancel being shot.

I know it's easy to say this in hindsight and a very different prospect to face in reality, fortunately, I've never been there.

What you reckon?

 

I think you've got some good points. I also think it's easy to look at a clip and then say, they could have done this or that.

Assuming I just came back from a boys night out - I might be a little inebriated. If not, at least there will be that lovely smell of machismo in the air. So they probably thought (for whatever reason) they could take him.

Slip also made a good point about the fact that no one did anything to really take down the guy: an eye gouge, a knee to the groin. Instead of trying to disarm or make it so the guy can't fight back - they kind of pile up on him.

Not that I have ever been in that situation, I think that if you were lucky enough to deflect the gun and move in, your next aim would be to strike vital points and disarm, no?

Of course, just giving him 'all the cash' you had at the moment would have helped... or maybe not letting strangers in, late at night???

 

reply...

unforutantly we couldn't hear the dialouge. For all we know the robber could have said, "after you give me your money, i'll kill you". I had a relative in that exact situation a number of years ago. He was able to survive it by wrestling the gun away and disabling the attacker. My guess is, the 4 guys thought they could out muscle the felon. If only they could have controlled the gun or thrown an effective strike. I can honestly say that my reaction(and i dont know what my reaction would be unless i was in that situation) would be to deflect the gun and strike his nose. But its very hard to say unless one of us was actually there, what would go on...

 

How to disarm a gun - Twist hand to the left, twist gun to the right and TADA:

But seriously, you should outsmart the person really, think! If a guy ask you for money, there is little chance he can harm you, but you have to remember, if a guy is unmasked, he would likely to kill you because you would remember his face. But chances are low, do what he says. Logically if a guy really want to kill you, he would say I'll kill you.

Another is, if a guy really want to kill you, he'd shoot you from behind, or from distance. Why would he bother to come so close?

So it's really smart to just follow instructions, unless you are 100% sure he's got nothing in his cylinder.

 

Scary clip. VERY scary. I'd have given him what he wanted.... So sad that one dies, and another critically injured (anyone got an update on him?)