Questions about ninjutsu

I know this should go in the ninjutsu section but I'm not valued member so I have a few questions.
1. What is the most legit dojo-Bujinkan, Jinenkan, or Genbukan
2. Are there any ninjutsu dojos in the Mesa, Arizona area
3.Do ninjustu dojos train in the following aspects.
- Togakure Ryu Gontonpo - 5 Elemental methods of Evasion and Stealth
* Mokuton-no-jutsu (wood evasion art)
* Doton-no-jutsu (earth evasion art)
* Katon-no-jutsu (fire evasion art)
* Suiton-no-jutsu (water evasion art)
* Kinton-no-jutsu (metal evasion art)
- (ninja tools)-Ropes (nawa) and grappling hooks (Ikari nawa) and hooked ropes (kagi nawa) Tsui-giri (picks), Torinoko (smoke bombs), Hoguchi (tinder box), Tenohira-taimatsu (hand held torch), Shikoro (mini saw), Saku (lock pick), Kusuri-ire (medicine pouch), Kunai (spade), Noroshizutsu (flare), Saoto Hikigane (tool used to eavesdrop on converstaions and detect sounds), Mizugumo (wooden float to help ninja get across water) and Oritatami-nomi (folding chisel)
-Shinobi-iri (stealth walking & entering methods), Intonjutsu (escaping and concealment), Choho (espionage), Kieuserujutsu (disappearing techniques), , and Hensojutsu (disguise & impersonation).
-Hitsuke – The practice of distracting guards by starting a fire away from the ninja's planned point of entry. Falls under "fire techniques" (katon-no-jutsu).
-Tanuki-gakure – The practice of climbing a tree and camouflaging oneself within the foliage. Falls under "wood techniques" (mokuton-no-jutsu).
-Ukigusa-gakure – The practice of throwing duckweed over water in order to conceal underwater movement. Falls under "water techniques" (suiton-no-jutsu).
-Uzura-gakure – The practice of curling into a ball and remaining motionless in order to appear like a stone. Falls under "earth techniques" (doton-no-jutsu).


I know these sound really silly and stupid but please give serious answers

 

Fair warning, if past experience holds true, this thread will go on for a couple dozen pages with little in the way of a straight forward answer. The world of ninjutsu is not a united one.

 

If you think they sound stupid and silly then why are you asking them?

My take on serious answers:

1. They are all as legit as one another, but QC in the Bujinkan is non existent, so your chances of finding a terrible teacher are higher here. That said you can also find a better teacher in Bujinkan depending your location and what you are looking for.
2. No Idea, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were.
3. No.

 

It's a pretty standard thing to say when you're feeling sheepish about being a newbie. Think you probably could have let that pass sans comment.

 

1) Every Genbukan dojo listed on the genbukan homepage is legit.
2) No idea. Use the genbukan dojo finder and check if there is one in your neighborhood.
3) No.

To expand on '3': The more esoteric parts of our art are taught only in Japan probably, to the handful of people who get the full transmission. Everybody else just gets the fighting aspects. Everyone claiming to teach the things you mentioned (outside Japan) probably made them up on the go, or got them from vairous other sources without having been taught them by a qualified teacher of authentic ninjutsu.

 

Why is that?

 

1) The fighting aspect is the major part

2) the ninjer sneaking stuff is like family silver, you dont want youtube ninjers stealing it

3) it keeps the hierachy intact.

 

Oh, I'm not one for sheepishness. I was genuinely wondering if he felt the question was out of interest in a positive or negative manner, as many new folk go into either category.

Corrmaz, no need to feel uncomfortable, we are a friendly bunch around here, welcome to MAP.

 

Are you looking at becoming a mercenary/Assassin or something? Most of the tools you listed have better modern equivalents--listening devices for example are light-years ahead. :woo:

 

I think you should dispense with convention and open your mind to the truth that is velociraptorenkan. I am a master practitioner, ask me anything you want.

 

What he said. The esoteric and cultural things make no sense on todays world. They are interesting from a cultural or historical perspective, but other than that fairly useless compared to their modern equivalents. Only the fighting and tactical teachings have actual relevance.

The cultural and esoteric knowledge is part of the authentic teachings, and as such are kept relatively secret because there are already more than enough youtube ninjers making a mockery of our art. So instead of sharing that with the people who have no real need of it, it is reserved for the very high level students who can be trusted to use the knowledge responsibly and not throw it on the internet.

Basically the only people 'needing' that knowledge are the ones who are singled out to receive the complete transmission of the entire art. And one of those students will be the next in line to inherit the grandmastership.

 

Or:

1. The esoteric teachings are more important than the fighting system.

2. The fighting/espionage teachings were, and may be again, the method of safeguarding the esoteric techniques and inner-circle ethos.

3. Having to master the fighting art before being entrusted with esoteric techniques serves three prime purposes: it increases your chances of living long enough to be able to learn and pass it on, it builds qualities necessary to do it, and it gives a unique vantage point to observe your strengths and weaknesses.

Would be my guess...

From the translated words of Hatsumi, I had gathered that it was an art of survival and enduring - so that one may have the opportunity to consider the deeper aspects of life.

 

I mean seriously how much training do you need to know how to start a fire somewhere?

 

I would tend to agree that historically the fighting system was probably far less important than the espionage techniques. However, in modern ninjitsu I would argue that the espionage techniques are at best an outdated cultural relic, and that the fighting techniques are now the core aspect.

I don't really understand what you mean by:

 

I wasn't talking about espionage when I said "esoteric". I was talking about more spiritual practices.

The second bit is why they keep the fighting/espionage stuff. They might need it again one day.

Fighting systems are borne of the need to protect something. The whole point of enduring and surviving is so that you, or your children, may enjoy times of peace. These are the important times, not fighting - that is just necessary. It is in times of peace that people can flourish and improve their lot. And what greater treasure can one protect and hand down, than techniques to lift the veil on reality (if you're talking a few centuries ago)?

 

1. Define most legit? Study Jinenkan or Genbukan only, as a rule.

2. I'll let someone else tackle this one, but I recommend Googling AZ + Jinenkan (I'm almost certain there are no "official" schools there) or Genbukan (there are a few I believe).

3. I'm not even tackling that one.

Good luck.

 

Basically what I wanted to know if Bujinkan Genbukan or Jinenkan trained in stealth and how deep do they go in the training and when could I expect to learn it.

 

Why do you want to learn stealth techniques?

 

why not i just want to know

 

That's insufficient for me to be comfortable giving an answer to a stranger.